E20 - How ChatGPT influences language learning and its ethical implications
Chat GPT researcher, Monica Albini, shares her insight on how Chat GPT impacts the educational industry and its ethical implication. Monica also shares her experiences as an Italian and Czech person living in Switzerland and Spain.
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[Voices] Inescapably.
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[Nolan] Inescapably Foreign. I'm Nolan Yuma,
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and this is the show for expats, nomads, third culture kids, refugees,
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or anyone else that feels inescapably foreign.
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And today I'm here with Monica Albini. Uh,
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Monica was born and raised in Italy.
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Half her family is from the Czech Republic, and she's been living in Spain.
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Um, so she studied translation and interpreting for her bachelor degree in
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Switzerland and did her master's degree in international communication tourism
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in Italy.
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And now she's working as a research scholar for the University of Torino.
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But we'll get into that a little bit later. Uh, first off, Monica,
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how are you doing today?
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[Monica] I'm doing good, thank you. Hope you too, as well.
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[Nolan] Yeah. Yeah, it's good to meet you. This is our first time meeting, so, uh,
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I'm excited to get to know you.
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[Monica] Same .
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[Nolan] All right. So, um, Monica, what,
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what are you doing for your research right now?
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Or what do you want to do for your research?
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[Monica] Right now I'm working on this software, this new platform, um,
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of Open AI, which is called Chat GPT, which is now, which is now for free.
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So everyone can have an account there. And, well,
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it's a new technology,
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it's a new artificial intelligence that may change during the future,
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because it, it may have the new costs in the future, but, uh,
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it's really interesting to see how it understands actually what you want,
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what you are looking for exactly as Google, for example.
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So if you have any kind of, uh, doubts, questions,
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and you wanna do any kind of request, then you can ask equally Google and,
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for example, chat, GPT. And it works with different languages. It works,
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um, with different topics. So for example,
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if you have a questions about how to use Excel,
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how to use a particular formula in Excel,
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it can help you if you have, um, if you wanna help with, for example,
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an email that you need, a formal email for your boss,
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for this particular thing, it helps you as well.
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Or if you wanna just write, um,
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a wish for your friend in Czech language, then it helps also with,
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with that. So I'm actually working, um,
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on the differences between the languages that are used in,
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in the chat. So for example, if big languages as English,
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of course are, if the results are better, then for example, Czech
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And I actually saw that a few words actually,
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that in check were not really the greatest one to use in that particular
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context. And then also, uh, see how,
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how it can change then the future is. So I was thinking about some,
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um, some consequences about this chat, because, for example, what about the,
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the, the job of the teachers and professors?
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Will it change in the future because of the chat, this chat?
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Will students be more interested in studying languages or not really,
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because they know that there is this chat available,
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and so that it's, it's easier for them just to, you know, just to put okay,
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translate this into another language. So, you know, when.
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[Nolan] So there's a lot to unpack there, right? Because we're,
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we're looking at education, we're looking at, uh, jobs as well.
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Um, so before we get into the specifics there, um,
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just for the listeners who might not know what chat GPT is, uh,
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you described it quite well, um, but chat t uh,
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is an an N L P model, right? Um,
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do you know what the differences are between Chat GPT and some of the other NLP
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models out there?
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[Monica] Well, to be honest, not really natural. I starting with chat GPT.
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Okay.
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So the difference right now is a further for free that it works with different
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languages, that it's user friendly. It's very easy to, to understand it.
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So for example, I know I've never, I,
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I mean also regarding this research that I'm doing, um,
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I'm not into the software part,
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into the programmation because I've never studied that kind of things. No.
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I've always studied languages, education, cultures, uh, interpreting.
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So I'm more,
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there is this part of people who are studying how it works from a, uh,
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from the software point of view.
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And then there is me who's more into the ethical or moral education
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translating and that, that part. Yeah.
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[Nolan] But the,
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the difference actually ties into the language because one of the things about
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chat GPT compared to the other NLP models is that it's highly
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customizable, right? And it's, uh,
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meets like specific needs of that person,
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and you can change the way it talks to you. Um,
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which of course means that it starts to mimic human behavior.
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Right. Um, now, when,
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when we're talking about mimicking human behavior,
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what do you think some of the pros and cons are? I have some of my own ideas,
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but what,
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what do you think some of the pros and cons are specific to the idea of
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mimicking human behavior?
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[Monica] Hmm. Well, I can think that, well,
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considering that human behavior, human is not always a good person, you know,
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so it may change drastically if something bad happens.
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So it can, uh, I mean, people,
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people do not use the chat, do not use Google, for example,
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just for question, just for good intentions.
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So they can somehow also look for something bad that can
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then have constant constituencies on society. Uh,
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what I saw is that, for example, Chat GPT, if you, um, try to,
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to look for some, um, I was looking for some Mussolini or Hitler,
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uh, propaganda. And yeah, uh, it,
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it's taught me in my research, because I'm sorry, um, I, I can't,
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I can't do this, I can't help you with this research,
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but drop people who are trying, you know,
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to avoid this kind of question.
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So they're trying to ask the chat to work differently, to arrive to,
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for example, that kind of propaganda, that kind of bad things, you know?
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So I think that the fact that it,
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it becomes more and more as human being, um,
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can have also this kind of problems that it's, it's not just good.
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It can also have the, the bad part.
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[Nolan] Definitely. And are you familiar with Brett Weinstein? Um.
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[Monica] The Brett? Not really. No. No.
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[Nolan] What is it? Um, oh, well, we don't have to get into it too much right now,
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but he, the, the main thing is that he advocates for, uh,
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metamorphosis architecture. Which is the idea, like,
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let's say chat, uh, Chat GPT five years down the road,
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10 years down the road,
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once it's able to truly mimic human behavior that it's
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unable to, uh, take on the sh um,
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take on a human right. Like if at a, at a very extreme, uh, side,
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they talk about like, um, that movie, um,
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something macina with the girl who,
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she's a robot. Um,
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but she ends up playing on the human behavior of the guy,
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and you end up really like, sympathizing with her,
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and you feel bad for what's happening to this woman, but in the end,
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it just ends up being a horror because you realize that she's, she,
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she's soulless, she's emotionless, but she's able to manipulate human behaviors.
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And that's kind of already happening with chat GPT, right? Because it can,
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it sounds so human. Um.
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[Monica] Uh, it, it, it, it sounds to have a chat with another human, because it,
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it helps also, if there are things that you do not understand,
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you can just ask No, make it simpler because I don't get it. And then it,
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it simplifies all the things that you ask for. So it really, it's, it,
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it gets what you, what you want. It, it actually, it is a chat,
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it understands the word. For example, I will try also, um, finish,
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like, finish the, the sentence, you know? Um, and I put something, um,
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to tonight I'm going to, and then, okay,
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I left it in order to, you know, for the chat to,
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to fill in the gap and the chat understood that I was looking for something
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to do during the night. So he, the,
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the chats didn't put, for example,
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are I'm going to work or I'm going to, no, no,
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I'm going to the supermarket. No, because it understood that tonight means,
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okay, tonight I'm gonna sleep, probably, probably,
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or that I'm gonna have a walk, uh, and look at the stars. So it,
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it, it, it understood that stars refers to the night,
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now that the two things are actually related.
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It's not just putting the words together, but it's, it understood, uh,
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what I wanted, that during the night, there are stars during the night.
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It's quiet, it's.
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[Nolan] Quiet, definitely. And it, and all those,
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and sometimes it's even more intense than that. Like,
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I've asked it to create a text, and it was quite obscure because it's a, well,
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it's a premise that I'm working on for a story, and it's, um,
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like a satire about bureaucracy set in the afterlife.
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And I asked it to, I asked it to write a short story, and it was pretty good.
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And then I asked, can you make it more subversive? Right.
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Which I think is kind of like a difficult thing to do for a human even.
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And it did it, like the word usage, the, um,
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some of the topics, I forget the specifics,
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but all of a sudden it really did start to challenge the status quo.
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And then I said, make it funnier. And it did like, it understood humor. Um,
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but then to bring this into education.
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So I think it's very valuable for students in that case, because I think,
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well, well, not, I think I, I know that we learn better when we have, um,
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uh, emotional context and an emotional relation to,
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to what's going on. Um, so it can do that.
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Do you think it's positive then, in this case, because since it feels so human,
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it makes it easier to learn? Or.
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[Monica] What, uh, I mean, I graduated in July,
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so it's not, you know, not time ago, to be honest,
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as a student, I would not feel that humanity.
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I think I would just see how, um,
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how helpful it is as like a software that I can actually use.
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So if I had to write a text for the day after, for example,
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was like, okay, okay, wait a second. So I need to put this and this. Um, okay,
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okay. I don't have time. You know, I would just go and use that.
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I wouldn't think about, okay, it's a human,
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it's from a human point of view. So, um, I think it's,
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it's a risk. Um, like all the students that will use,
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that will use the chat. Um,
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they, one thing about the fact that, um, it may,
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it may have some consequences, or it, there is this human part,
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I think they will just use it because it's easier. It's, it's free now,
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and the results are pretty good. Just, okay, there is the part,
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it's still being trained now.
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It's like still being studying as a chat. So for example,
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draw text is, uh, draw text, and, um,
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works that well.
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You really see that probably it's not what your, your language.
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So I mean, as a, as a teacher, for example,
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if I know my students,
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I know that every student has a particular style, a particular way of writing.
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[Nolan] But it can learn that, and especially in the future, it will, right?
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It'll, it'll start to learn your style.
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[Monica] It can learn. So, um,
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what.
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[Nolan] I think it's almost like that with, with any technology, right?
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Like some students are going to plagiarize with it,
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and it's going to be much more difficult to check this type of
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plagiarism. And of course, that's, that's a big problem in academia, uh,
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not even as, as a student, right? But even, even afterwards, if, um,
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you're doing research and you have to write this.
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And another problem with that is like today,
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I asked it to create a summary of, um, well,
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I asked Big Gods how religion transformed cooperation and conflict, um,
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because it's not a very popular book, but it's, it's quite interesting. And it,
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it found it right away. It gave an excellent summary. And then I asked,
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can you create a citation for me? And then chat,
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GPT says, I'm sorry,
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but I'm unable to provide citations for my summary of Big Gods,
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how religion transformed cooperation and conflict. As an ai,
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I do not have the ability to access or browse external sources of
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information.
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My responses are generated based on the knowledge and information that I have
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been trained on, which is derived from a wide range of sources.
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But this is very problematic in, in research because we have to cite,
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we have to cite our research, we have to be able to check where it comes from.
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And of course, a lot of people don't think like that, right?
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a lot of people already take a lot of news at everything for face value.
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But with chat GPT like, we're,
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we're really expected to take this at face value without being,
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um, able to check it. And sometimes it's wrong, as you pointed out,
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right? So how, how can we fix that problem? Do you have any ideas around that?
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[Monica] Uh, that's what I'm thinking about because, uh, also the,
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the problems also that you, you don't have to,
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to response responses that are equal.
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So if I try something here, for example, based Italy,
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and if you try something there in Spain, maybe we have two different,
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two different answers. And.
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[Nolan] Really, I, I didn't.
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[Monica] Know. I, I think, uh, why I tried once here in Italy and with Ruben,
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Spain, and we had two different answers. And so it, you,
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you never know what kind of results you will get.
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So that's, that, that's a problem because, um, you need to know,
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as you said, yeah, where, where the text is from. And,
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but the result, you know,
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is so good that actually we are just focusing on, okay,
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the result is pretty good, but what's behind that result? You know,
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like we are still trying to research,
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trying to analyze what's behind all these results. For example, sources,
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for example. Um, so how we gonna work with teacher and with students?
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Do we need to inform them about this new way of
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learning? Um, how will they, how will they work with this?
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Because as I said, um, you never know if a person use, for example, you know,
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a simple dictionary in a good way or, or not. So,
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and this is the same case, so it's something new, but since it's so,
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so powerful that, um.
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[Nolan] Well, uh, I not really, I just,
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I hope they figure out a way to include the citations so we can cross reference
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the information that we're getting. But yeah.
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And then the other thing, but the, the good side is,
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is that there are no advertisements. Well, good, good for people,
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maybe not good for Google's business structure. Um,
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what, what do you think about that?
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Do you think it's going to disrupt Google's business model?
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[Monica] It can, but I think Google is already working on it.
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I have this idea that they are already working on, okay,
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what we're gonna do with that. Um, it also true that, you know, on Google,
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you can also have links that go to another page,
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that go to another page. Uh, with chat GPT,
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you just have that answer, so you have to stick to that answer.
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You can't really, yeah. Click and then go search something out, because maybe,
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okay, you were looking for that thing, but then, okay, then okay,
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maybe this can be interesting as well. Let me see, you know, Google,
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let me see what kind of answer I can add, for example, to what I'm looking for.
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Um, on the chat GPT, it's, yeah,
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you don't have the ads, so that,
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that's good because you just have the answer you were looking for,
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but then you don't have the possibility to add something
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to your, to your answer. But I think Google is already working on it.
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They're not saying it because, but it's still in the process. But.
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[Nolan] Not adding the ads as well is just, it's such a good thing for productivity. Well,
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as one, one thing, you just get the answer faster,
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but also you just don't have as many distractions. Um,
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which to tie it into education, I think it's, it's a good thing.
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Like as a, as a teacher, I would, I would promote that because it's like, okay,
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uh,
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you have to research something and you're not gonna get distracted by all these
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ads. You're not gonna get distracted by all these, these pictures,
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or you are this click bait. Um,
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so it might end up being really good for productivity.
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[Monica] For, for activity. I agree. I agree with you. Cuz you don't have distractions.
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You don't have all the first, you know, results that I just ads and ads.
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You just stick to the, to the point for, from a point of view of,
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okay, I can, it can maybe, uh,
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Google can maybe add something more because as I said,
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there is a possibility to, you know,
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click and then see other answers with the chats. Well,
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you are clear with the chats. You wanted to look for this and it gave you this.
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Okay, so then that's true and you don't have the possibility to,
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to add something, you know, to continue with the, with the research.
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[Nolan] Mm-hmm.
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And now you, your research as well,
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you were asking about how it affects teachers. So, well,
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I work as a teacher.
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But first I wanna know what, what you think,
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do you think this is going to negatively impact teaching careers?
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Or do you think it'll have, uh, or it'll just be a good tool?
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[Monica] Well, um,
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I think that the key point is to make it a good tool for the
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teachers. I think now, uh,
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teachers can be a bit scared of this, uh,
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and students are the ones super excited because oh yeah,
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it's a new way of working. You know,
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I can have this homework done in five minutes.
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So I think there's this gap right now that the students are super excited,
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whereas the teachers, uh, not really,
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but I think that the turning point will be when the teachers will understand how
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to use in a good latest tools with the, with the students as well.
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[Nolan] Yeah. So I actually did it today.
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because I knew we were gonna talk about this. And, um, well, I was,
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I was pretending, well, I, I am a student as well in a way, right?
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I'm studying Spanish. So I, I told the, uh,
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Chad GPT to make a question for me about Spanish subjunctive. I said, well,
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first I say, can you explain the Spanish subjunctive to me?
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And it gave me a very good summary, very good list of rules. And then I said,
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can you create, uh, a question that I can answer? And then after you words,
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you tell me if I'm right or wrong, and it didn't understand it first just, um,
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just ask me questions that were in the subjunctive, right? So they,
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and then it explained why this question is in the subjunctive, and I said, no,
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you're not understanding me. I want you to ask me a question.
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And I was actually switching back between writing and Spanish and writing in
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English. Uh,
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and then finally it understood and it asked me multiple choice questions.
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So, and it, it wasn't great. Like it was okay, but it was correct.
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I think it was correct because it was Spanish,
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but I'm pretty sure it was correct. And it just made me realize as a teacher,
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again, it's a tool.
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I can use this to generate questions and help me think of questions that I can
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use for my students. Um, so again, it's,
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it's like a tool that just makes work go faster in my opinion,
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because you still need to be knowledgeable about what
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to ask, right? Like, I had to know what the subjunctive is.
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You still have to know the language, and then from there, uh,
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you can create the questions. It's kind of the same with, um, Dall-E.
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Have you used the Dall-E?
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[Monica] Yes. Part of it? For the pictures.
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[Nolan] Okay. Uh, what, what is Dali, could you explain it.
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[Monica] To the, the Dali is also, is also the artificial intelligence, which,
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which work with, uh, images. So if you ask for example,
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um, I wanna see like, uh,
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I wanna see a picture of, you know, a dog in the park.
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Uh, it's actually artificial intelligence that creates,
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so like those pictures do not exist.
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The one that you see in the result is just the artificial intelligence that put
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together what you,
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what you were looking for and just book together everything you were looking for
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in a picture. So, oh, for example, also, like people that I wanna see a,
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um, I dunno, a ginger, ginger-haired girl, for example. So you won,
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find a picture of me because I exist, but then the Dali will look for,
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will create, yeah. Uh, a new picture. A new picture.
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Yeah. Are you.
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[Nolan] Which of course your mind immediately jumps to,
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this is gonna be bad for graphic designers.
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But then I tried it the other day and it created an image and it,
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there were some faults with it. And then afterwards, uh,
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my partner, she was able to fix it up a little bit, right? So if anything,
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it just made the job of a graphic designer go a little bit faster.
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And that's how I also feel as a writer with chat GPT. Like I said, with the,
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the summary of the story and everything,
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I didn't have this sense of fear where it was like, oh no,
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I'm gonna lose my job as a writer,
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cuz I still have to come up with the ideas and the premise
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and then chat GPT just helps me develop it.
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Just like if I was working with a human partner. So like, for me,
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it doesn't give me too much fear. Like I really just see it as a,
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as a tool and just to make life a little bit easier.
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But of course it could go the other way.
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[Monica] Um, I have a question for you too, um,
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because I was talking to Ruben about this,
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and his idea was that, uh, in the future, a lot of jobs,
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for example, graphic designers that you say, and teachers will, uh,
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will not exist anymore because for example, one software can,
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one application can do the jobs for all of this.
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So then different jobs will just be done by one
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software. In that case, do you think, is this the case or you think that this,
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these people will still be,
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need to adjust some of the mistakes of this, this platform?
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[Nolan] That's the thing. I,
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I think we'll still need people to kind of cross reference with it because
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like, as with chat GPT, like you, you get a result.
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And if you don't really like it, you can just say, do this.
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But you still need the human to say like,
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can you change it and tweak it in this way? Um, okay. Well,
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since I work as a writer as well, that's what I know the most about it.
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And what I think the most about,
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and I think it'll be fine for developing big
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works like a screenplay or a novel or something like that.
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Because you might just have like a problem in your, in your act, right?
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And be like, okay, so I have this inciting incident,
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can you help me come up with a good, uh,
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refusal to the call or something like that.
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You follow the structure and you have to have the knowledge of, of, um,
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your craft to actually be asking the right questions. The same with Dall-E
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Um, like, I'm not an artist, but I,
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I know a little bit and I realize once I show, um,
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Dall-E that I know the, the, the movements like, oh,
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can you make a surrealist painting, but in the style of the Dadaists, right?
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And then it does it,
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but I still as a human am doing my job in a way, right? Like,
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I'm using what I was, what I know,
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and I'm still coming up with the ideas and then I'm tweaking it. So I don't,
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I don't know,
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I think it might take away jobs for like,
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maybe some marketing purposes, like shorter texts when it's like, uh,
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can you create a clickbait title or can you summarize this
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for a Buzzfeed article? You know, like,
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no offense to like Buzzfeed articles and stuff like these, like simpler texts,
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right? I think maybe it might take jobs away from that.
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[Monica] But, but people will still be, I mean, I,
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I agree with you. Uh, that's what I said to him. Like, for me, no,
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people will still be used for,
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for this because you still need a human being to adjust a bit,
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uh, you know, the results. But for example, regarding the movie or the, the story,
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you know, um, I read for example,
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an article that people asked to create a plot for a movie. No,
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that's some, a movie that does not exist yet. Uh,
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but the results in the Chad GPT results to be a bit too obvious.
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Like, you know, the typical love story in a bad environment,
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something like that. So it doesn't seem to,
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to have great ideas, um,
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which came up with something new. Maybe it's, but it's not trained yet. So, uh.
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[Nolan] It's, it's not trained yet. And I mean, the average, if it's,
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if it's getting most of the data for like a, a movie script, the average movie,
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like a Hollywood movie is so formulaic, right?
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Like it really just follows the hero's journey. And I mean,
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if you watch the average American movie, predict what's gonna happen,
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average American, Hollywood, blockbuster, not, not indie movies of course. Um,
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but then, then I think it'll be able to train with that too.
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Like you could say, make sure that this doesn't follow the hero's journey.
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Make sure that it plays with this convention. Um,
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and then I think slowly it'll,
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it'll develop away from that kind of generic
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script. Alright, but.
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[Monica] That was, but do you think it's something that will hap will happen soon,
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like in a near feature?
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[Nolan] Seems like it. Like, I mean,
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I think it's already incredible what it can do, and you,
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you can just see how quick it could happen. Am I, from how it feels to me,
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I think it's gonna be in five years.
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we're gonna be shocked with how, how much this has changed our lives.
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And then we're talking about efficiency a lot, right? Uh,
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this makes me think about the four hour work week or I don't,
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or is a four hour work day or four hour work week?
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[Monica] Uh, I think they right. Four days. Yeah. One free.
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[Nolan] Okay. Right.
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So the idea that with all this technology we could work a lot less.
450
00:27:29.710 --> 00:27:30.543
[Monica] Mm-hm.
451
00:27:30.550 --> 00:27:34.920
[Nolan] What do you think? Do you think that is possible? Um,
452
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:37.640
first it's on a theoretical level,
453
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.560
do you think it would be possible and then maybe on a practical level,
454
00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:44.120
maybe it would work in some countries, wouldn't work in other countries?
455
00:27:44.120 --> 00:27:45.240
Depends on the culture.
456
00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:48.160
[Monica] Well, if we follow the idea that, uh,
457
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:53.080
human being is still needed to adjust all the stays, all the results,
458
00:27:53.550 --> 00:27:57.680
then well, it will one,
459
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.320
change the way we work. If you think about it, I mean, we can just decide, okay,
460
00:28:02.330 --> 00:28:02.810
um,
461
00:28:02.810 --> 00:28:07.120
we are gonna work just four days and then on Friday we're gonna have a day off
462
00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:10.160
because maybe the machine needs some updates.
463
00:28:10.370 --> 00:28:15.080
No need to not to be used for one day that maybe it will change
464
00:28:15.510 --> 00:28:20.480
just because as I said, it may, it needs once a week to be updated,
465
00:28:20.850 --> 00:28:23.310
you know? But there for the rest of the,
466
00:28:23.370 --> 00:28:28.200
for the rest of the days during the week, I think, um,
467
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:32.970
like a human being will normally work with help
468
00:28:33.010 --> 00:28:37.500
cause of this, this Chat GPT of this machine. But then,
469
00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:39.940
I mean, if we, if we stick to the idea that okay,
470
00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:44.060
a human being behind this machine, behind this stop door is still needed,
471
00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:47.620
then I think people will still work.
472
00:28:47.800 --> 00:28:52.310
And depending on the country as well. Yes and no,
473
00:28:52.310 --> 00:28:56.750
because the chat right now, the chat can be used from everywhere.
474
00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:01.670
So every country can already start to adjust to this new
475
00:29:01.670 --> 00:29:03.470
application. What do you think?
476
00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:07.570
[Nolan] Yeah, I think it depends a little bit on the culture
477
00:29:07.570 --> 00:29:11.050
Like this is kind of a controversial statement, but um,
478
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:13.250
I've lived in Spain long enough now,
479
00:29:13.250 --> 00:29:18.010
and I think if you put the same company in Spain and then put the exact
480
00:29:18.010 --> 00:29:22.450
same company, exact same idea in uh, let's say Finland or Norway,
481
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.650
it's going to go so much more efficiently in Finland or Norway.
482
00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:31.450
And they're gonna do the exact same amount of work in half the amount of time,
483
00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:34.050
you know. Um,
484
00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:39.450
so I think it depends how you use these tools and what kind of work culture
485
00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:44.410
[Monica] hat true you have. That's true.
486
00:29:44.410 --> 00:29:45.330
[Nolan] Yeah. But it, it’s complicated.
487
00:29:45.330 --> 00:29:49.690
Like it also makes me think back then to having like a universal, um,
488
00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:51.410
base pay, right?
489
00:29:51.410 --> 00:29:53.410
because if machines are able to do so much,
490
00:29:53.410 --> 00:29:57.490
like not everyone can be an engineer because of course the bigger AI gets,
491
00:29:57.490 --> 00:30:01.610
the more engineering jobs are gonna be because there's always gonna be bug
492
00:30:01.610 --> 00:30:05.450
fixes. There's always going to be something that these engineers have to do.
493
00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:07.850
And yes, um, uh,
494
00:30:07.850 --> 00:30:10.610
Chat GPT is already really good in coding and everything,
495
00:30:10.610 --> 00:30:15.210
but you still need an engineer to be doing that with like together with the
496
00:30:15.210 --> 00:30:17.370
system and then fixing the bugs within the system.
497
00:30:17.630 --> 00:30:21.210
But then there's like the other jobs that might go obsolete.
498
00:30:21.690 --> 00:30:25.780
What are we going to do for them? Should we have a universal base pay?
499
00:30:26.610 --> 00:30:29.190
And I think like these things have existed along,
500
00:30:29.190 --> 00:30:32.310
these ideas have existed along before AI and they,
501
00:30:32.310 --> 00:30:36.350
they've been tested out in some cases kind of have where some cases haven't.
502
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:40.460
And I think it just, it's just gonna make that more complicated.
503
00:30:40.460 --> 00:30:43.900
[Monica] Well because in that case, um, for example, as we said,
504
00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:47.370
maybe for some marketers, well they,
505
00:30:47.370 --> 00:30:52.130
they won't be able to work anymore because if Chad is so good in short texts,
506
00:30:52.270 --> 00:30:54.530
but then maybe, so less work,
507
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.290
less job positions for marketers,
508
00:30:57.290 --> 00:31:00.450
but more job position for engineering for.
509
00:31:00.850 --> 00:31:04.970
[Nolan] Which makes it weird with the four hour workday. Cuz how, how would that, like,
510
00:31:04.970 --> 00:31:08.530
okay, now maybe the marketers only need to work two hours a day. Yeah. Uh,
511
00:31:08.530 --> 00:31:11.610
but the engineers still need to work maybe 40 hours a week
512
00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:13.490
to, to solve everything. Right?
513
00:31:13.490 --> 00:31:15.330
So then is it fair that there's this,
514
00:31:15.710 --> 00:31:20.400
this base income and like maybe then engineers deserve to get way,
515
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:25.000
pay way more than everyone else in society and then it creates like this,
516
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.870
uh, inequality between engineers and, and everyone else.
517
00:31:28.870 --> 00:31:29.790
[Monica] Because now,
518
00:31:30.010 --> 00:31:33.550
now marketers can be paid also sometimes even more than engineers,
519
00:31:33.890 --> 00:31:38.750
but then it can happen. Yeah. As you said, that's there will be this difference.
520
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:43.230
[Nolan] Yeah. Yeah. But that, that,
521
00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:45.070
maybe that's the ugly side of it as well,
522
00:31:45.080 --> 00:31:49.710
because people who deserve to be getting paid a lot,
523
00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:53.430
right? Like engineers, doctors, um,
524
00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:57.390
maybe AI will make their jobs a little bit easier.
525
00:31:57.390 --> 00:32:01.950
And then who are we going to value still as like celebrities, influencers.
526
00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:07.110
And maybe it's just gonna make that even more tilted than it is now where like
527
00:32:07.610 --> 00:32:12.590
all these jobs that AI can do is going to make, um,
528
00:32:12.590 --> 00:32:14.710
yeah, the pay scale a lot lower for them.
529
00:32:14.970 --> 00:32:17.990
And then celebrities and everyone where it's, you know,
530
00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:21.750
like a celebrity doesn't do much. Sometimes they do shit all, right.
531
00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:26.710
but they get so much money and so much attention because they are able to sell
532
00:32:26.710 --> 00:32:30.790
a product and maybe it'll just be even more of that and we'll just live in like
533
00:32:30.790 --> 00:32:32.630
an influencers hell.
534
00:32:32.870 --> 00:32:35.150
[Monica] No, I hope not, not. Um,
535
00:32:35.150 --> 00:32:39.150
I also have another questions regarding the child, GPT for you because,
536
00:32:40.430 --> 00:32:45.080
well, the big languages, let's say exist already in, in the chat,
537
00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:49.400
but there are a few languages that are still not present that still do not exist
538
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:50.233
in the chat.
539
00:32:50.250 --> 00:32:54.720
Do you think because it's not well spread than globally this chat right now?
540
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:59.640
Because if I actually want to write something in that language. Okay, icons.
541
00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:04.120
So what, what can I do? Do you think this can have some consequences,
542
00:33:04.330 --> 00:33:08.320
ethical consequences, or they are still working on it?
543
00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:10.120
Or do you think it's just a matter of time?
544
00:33:11.500 --> 00:33:13.170
[Nolan] To me, it seems like a matter of time.
545
00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:16.730
Like right now it seems like there are ethical consequences with it, right?
546
00:33:16.730 --> 00:33:18.560
Because that,
547
00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:22.680
that is super problematic that let's say an English speaker, uh,
548
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:23.450
a Spanish speaker,
549
00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:28.200
they're able to get the correct answers and then someone who doesn't have
550
00:33:28.590 --> 00:33:33.120
access to those languages, they get like an incorrect response or something,
551
00:33:33.280 --> 00:33:37.840
which creates an even larger divide between people who are
552
00:33:37.840 --> 00:33:40.880
educated in these main languages and people who aren't. I mean,
553
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.840
we already have that problem Sure. Now, and I think,
554
00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:47.880
I think it would make it bigger. But then on the flip side,
555
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:52.290
it's so good at teaching languages if it has poor information,
556
00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:57.170
it might help to keep some of those languages alive. Like imagine if,
557
00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:02.090
uh, Duolingos, uh, work to get together with, uh,
558
00:34:02.090 --> 00:34:05.250
Chad GPT and created some something with that,
559
00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:08.170
that that could really help a lot of the, the,
560
00:34:08.170 --> 00:34:10.130
the minor languages that are disappearing.
561
00:34:11.160 --> 00:34:11.993
[Monica] Hmm. Sure.
562
00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:15.280
[Nolan] What, what, what do you think, do you think it's going to,
563
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.520
they're going to make sure to put more information into it from other languages?
564
00:34:19.590 --> 00:34:21.000
I, or would they just focus?
565
00:34:21.270 --> 00:34:26.150
[Monica] I think so because, um, I think, well now that it,
566
00:34:26.150 --> 00:34:27.990
it is free, uh,
567
00:34:27.990 --> 00:34:32.380
we are somehow helping the researchers to
568
00:34:32.730 --> 00:34:37.260
make the Chat GPT becoming better and better. Like if you, if you noticed there is the,
569
00:34:37.260 --> 00:34:40.500
the, like that turns up that you can click if you like the Yeah.
570
00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:45.100
So I think before create a new language, uh,
571
00:34:45.100 --> 00:34:49.140
they need to be sure that that answer is good. So they can directly translate,
572
00:34:49.140 --> 00:34:52.460
they can directly think about that answer, that good answer.
573
00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:56.820
That's a lot of people click on it saying that, yeah, this is a good result.
574
00:34:56.850 --> 00:35:00.220
Then they will directly insert then the other language.
575
00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:05.020
So I think it's been trained now with the big languages,
576
00:35:05.020 --> 00:35:07.020
but then I think yeah, the, the,
577
00:35:07.640 --> 00:35:11.300
the needs to have this kind of chat is kind of software for the people.
578
00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:15.660
I think it will arrive to this kind of languages, minor languages as well.
579
00:35:15.660 --> 00:35:19.380
So it's just a matter of time because we are, we are training it as well.
580
00:35:19.390 --> 00:35:23.020
If you click like, then okay, the system, the,
581
00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:26.220
the artificial intelligence knows that. Okay. That's a good,
582
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:31.530
that's a good answer. So for maybe some, someone else in another country,
583
00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:34.090
uh, looks for the same answer.
584
00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:38.360
So I can use this kind of answers as well in that case and so on.
585
00:35:39.540 --> 00:35:43.590
[Nolan] Yeah. Yeah. Now another thing with the, the ethics and the,
586
00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:47.960
the moral side of it, um, oh,
587
00:35:48.370 --> 00:35:53.050
oh, okay. No, no. So I asked Chat GPT,
588
00:35:53.140 --> 00:35:58.010
uh, the Chat GPT, uh, is abortion morally wrong?
589
00:35:58.710 --> 00:36:01.120
Just to see what it would answer like for a moral question.
590
00:36:01.120 --> 00:36:05.240
And it gave a very objective response, right? It said that for some people,
591
00:36:05.810 --> 00:36:10.600
um, for some communities, for some religions, uh, it's, it's,
592
00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:13.360
uh, not, not accepted in those communities. Uh,
593
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.360
other people understand that it's,
594
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.520
it's up to the individual and that that was the last line.
595
00:36:18.520 --> 00:36:21.680
Like it gave the perspectives of okay. Of, uh, both sides,
596
00:36:21.680 --> 00:36:26.160
like pro-lifers and pro-choice. And then at the end, it said, in the end,
597
00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:30.640
it's up to the individual, which I think is an objective great response.
598
00:36:31.180 --> 00:36:36.050
But it is actually a western point of view because if we
599
00:36:36.050 --> 00:36:40.700
look at like the three different, I think it's schweder big three, you've got,
600
00:36:40.950 --> 00:36:44.980
um, morality of autonomy, which is what we kind of use in the west,
601
00:36:44.980 --> 00:36:48.700
where it really focuses on the individual. Like does it harm the individual?
602
00:36:48.970 --> 00:36:53.260
Then you have, um, like, um, community,
603
00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:55.980
and then that's when you think about morals, like, okay,
604
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:58.780
it's not up to the individual, but what is the best for the community?
605
00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:03.260
And then you have divinity like, would God frown upon it or,
606
00:37:03.550 --> 00:37:07.060
um, uh, yeah, something like that. And of course,
607
00:37:07.630 --> 00:37:11.940
in some, some cultures, the ethic of divinity
608
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:16.900
ethic of community are much stronger than in the West with the ethic
609
00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:21.300
of autonomy. So then I, I wrote all that in the chat tv,
610
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:24.860
and I said, by, uh, by answering with the individual,
611
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.900
you are actually taking a Western perspective. And then I said like, blah, blah,
612
00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:30.860
blah, no, I'm being objective. And then I said, well,
613
00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:34.340
where are your developers from? And it mentioned San Francisco. And I said,
614
00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:36.980
well, do you make sure that your developers are from all over the world?
615
00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:38.980
And it said yes. Um,
616
00:37:40.410 --> 00:37:44.000
so that's another thing to think about. Like it's supposed to be objective,
617
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:48.280
but of course if it's getting mostly information from a certain culture,
618
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:51.920
it's going to answer in that, in that cultural way.
619
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:52.520
[Monica] But you know, that,
620
00:37:52.520 --> 00:37:55.320
that's an interesting point of view because I was actually talking with a friend
621
00:37:55.320 --> 00:38:00.120
of mine. She was writing her thesis on this, uh, and well,
622
00:38:00.120 --> 00:38:04.880
she had to study this case study, um, that actually, um,
623
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:09.400
like how to use artificial intelligence in, for example,
624
00:38:09.540 --> 00:38:13.320
environmental disasters, you know? Um, well, yeah.
625
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.840
Then it helps artificial intelligence to, to, to tell, yeah,
626
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:21.320
you need to do this in order to save more people in order to avoid
627
00:38:21.470 --> 00:38:23.600
that tree to fall down, for example. You know?
628
00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:27.720
But then there is this moral ethical problem because, for example,
629
00:38:27.720 --> 00:38:32.590
for the, for Asia, okay, who are the most important people to say,
630
00:38:32.590 --> 00:38:36.280
well, first older people, because those have the knowledge,
631
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:40.680
those have the experience of the light. Then for, in Africa, for example,
632
00:38:40.680 --> 00:38:44.120
the most important people are, well, the, the men of the family,
633
00:38:44.120 --> 00:38:48.200
because they work, they bring money to, you know, four euro,
634
00:38:48.930 --> 00:38:50.360
uh, well,
635
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:54.640
female and women and children are the most important to say because
636
00:38:55.460 --> 00:38:59.140
women and children, you know, that those are those creators, okay.
637
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.500
Are in the community to say like,
638
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.900
and to contribute for the rest of the community.
639
00:39:03.950 --> 00:39:07.400
So there is this gap that, okay,
640
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:11.920
but how do we decide? I mean, it depends on which part of the world you are.
641
00:39:13.310 --> 00:39:17.490
You decide who to say. So for example, artificial intelligence in Asia,
642
00:39:17.780 --> 00:39:22.250
in case of, uh, environmental disaster, it will change,
643
00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:23.610
it will, sorry, uh,
644
00:39:23.610 --> 00:39:28.490
save other people than here in Europe and how,
645
00:39:28.490 --> 00:39:32.400
how to deal with this, how to deal with this difference. So, um.
646
00:39:33.770 --> 00:39:37.900
[Nolan] I guess government bodies will have to be involved, right?
647
00:39:37.900 --> 00:39:39.700
Because if it's up to a private company,
648
00:39:39.930 --> 00:39:44.580
then you might dissolve then get this homogenous homogenized world.
649
00:39:44.630 --> 00:39:49.420
So maybe the, you know, like that'll have to adapt from country to country.
650
00:39:49.420 --> 00:39:50.700
[Monica] So also in this case,
651
00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:55.780
human being is needed to solve the problem. Like, uh
652
00:39:55.870 --> 00:39:56.703
[Nolan] Yeah.
653
00:39:57.530 --> 00:40:01.100
Well, so that actually might create jobs too, right? Like, um,
654
00:40:01.100 --> 00:40:03.500
not only for engineers, but uh, well,
655
00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:07.060
people like us maybe are thinking more about language. And culture and,
656
00:40:07.060 --> 00:40:09.180
and ethics and philosophy. Like, okay,
657
00:40:09.180 --> 00:40:13.940
how can we adjust the algorithm to best suit the, this culture?
658
00:40:14.370 --> 00:40:16.260
That'd actually be fascinating. Mm-hmm.
659
00:40:16.370 --> 00:40:19.700
[Monica] Sure. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think from,
660
00:40:21.310 --> 00:40:25.470
um, from one side it can, um, well,
661
00:40:25.470 --> 00:40:27.710
it can be a bad thing, you know,
662
00:40:27.710 --> 00:40:31.870
for some job position using this artificial intelligence. And then as we said,
663
00:40:31.870 --> 00:40:35.350
from other point of view, it may add new job position,
664
00:40:35.390 --> 00:40:40.270
something really particular that needs to be done for this, for this, um,
665
00:40:40.270 --> 00:40:42.990
um, artificial intelligence. So, um, let's see.
666
00:40:42.990 --> 00:40:46.550
But it's something that will happen probably very soon. I agree on that.
667
00:40:46.740 --> 00:40:49.270
[Nolan] I think so too. All right, Monica,
668
00:40:49.270 --> 00:40:52.750
do you have any other questions related to this for me or anything else you
669
00:40:52.750 --> 00:40:57.350
wanted to mention about chat GPT or the artificial intelligence?
670
00:40:57.350 --> 00:40:59.150
Or do you wanna bring it into a different direction?
671
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:04.670
[Monica] No, I think it's okay. I think we talk almost one hour as, so.
672
00:41:05.560 --> 00:41:08.930
[Nolan] This is all I have on it right now, maybe in the future. And listeners,
673
00:41:08.930 --> 00:41:12.530
of course, uh, I'm gonna write an article about this as well. Uh,
674
00:41:12.530 --> 00:41:17.490
so you can go to withoutborders.fyi to join in on the conversation.
675
00:41:17.550 --> 00:41:22.370
I'm trying to create a community there of nomads and expats and anyone else
676
00:41:22.370 --> 00:41:27.090
that feels inescapably foreign. So I'm, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Um,
677
00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:28.250
and if you are an English learner,
678
00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:31.130
you could also access a transcript there and then, uh,
679
00:41:31.130 --> 00:41:35.960
maybe you can put my transcript into chat GPT and it'll correct some of more
680
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:36.650
mistakes.
681
00:41:36.650 --> 00:41:41.560
[Monica] It will be interesting it printing for that to have another chat in couple
682
00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:43.720
of months, years, and let's see how.
683
00:41:43.900 --> 00:41:45.120
[Nolan] See how much it advanced.
684
00:41:45.120 --> 00:41:46.280
[Monica] Yeah. See how it changed.
685
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:49.480
[Nolan] Yeah, definitely. Um, so Monica,
686
00:41:49.550 --> 00:41:51.360
I still don't know much about you.
687
00:41:52.770 --> 00:41:56.840
so let's hear a little bit more about your immigration story. Um,
688
00:41:56.840 --> 00:42:01.080
so you grew up in Italy? Yes. Uh, half your family is from Czech Republic,
689
00:42:01.100 --> 00:42:02.760
but you never lived in Czech?
690
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:04.680
[Monica] I lived just one year.
691
00:42:04.870 --> 00:42:08.240
I was working after my bachelor degree and before my master degree,
692
00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:10.720
I decided to have this gap year and work.
693
00:42:10.930 --> 00:42:14.680
So I went work to Czech Republic because, uh,
694
00:42:15.350 --> 00:42:20.000
I've always, uh, I've always spent time in Czech Republic just for holidays,
695
00:42:20.060 --> 00:42:24.160
you know, the typical holiday with my family during Christmas, during summer,
696
00:42:24.500 --> 00:42:27.560
but I would never really lived there. So because I lived,
697
00:42:27.560 --> 00:42:31.400
I grew up in Italy for 19 years because at 19 years old,
698
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.920
I went to Switzerland for studies. So I said, no, you know what?
699
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.440
I wanna also see the other part of me,
700
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.560
the other side of my personality and see how,
701
00:42:41.140 --> 00:42:45.120
how the Czech culture is if, if I can see myself.
702
00:42:45.330 --> 00:42:47.160
[Nolan] So I'm, I'm interested in that. What,
703
00:42:47.550 --> 00:42:52.200
what part of your personality feels Czech and what part of your personality
704
00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:53.040
feels at attached?
705
00:42:53.040 --> 00:42:56.720
[Monica] Well, I love beer so that is completely Czech.
706
00:42:56.780 --> 00:43:01.640
I'm not really into white. I'm not so, um, such a wine person. Uh,
707
00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:03.480
but to be honest,
708
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:09.450
I feel more Italian than Czech. I really see this, uh,
709
00:43:09.450 --> 00:43:13.570
differences now that I live there, um, that I'm much more,
710
00:43:13.670 --> 00:43:16.970
I'm not open-minded person. I am very smiley.
711
00:43:16.970 --> 00:43:19.810
I like staying in contact with people. Um,
712
00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:23.570
this is more something typical Italian than Czech, check people.
713
00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:27.550
Well, if you ask someone who want to to check,
714
00:43:27.660 --> 00:43:32.300
they will probably tell you that are not really friendly because they don't have
715
00:43:32.300 --> 00:43:36.860
this typical style of, we have in the south of Italy. Yeah, let's come to eat.
716
00:43:36.860 --> 00:43:39.140
No problem. Let's add a, a chair, you know,
717
00:43:39.140 --> 00:43:43.260
come to eat our place in Chamber Republic. There is not religious culture.
718
00:43:43.660 --> 00:43:48.310
Everyone is more serious, small, not really that friendly.
719
00:43:48.340 --> 00:43:52.740
I mean, the thing is, yeah, the problem is also that, uh,
720
00:43:52.740 --> 00:43:57.380
for me it's different. And I will explain you why, because I speak the language.
721
00:43:58.400 --> 00:43:59.233
So for me,
722
00:43:59.990 --> 00:44:04.750
going there and if I have to express and say something, uh,
723
00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:08.830
they will, oh, you speak Chezch. Okay, sure. So I will tell you, I will help you.
724
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:13.830
Uh, when there is a tourist that goes there and needs help, you know,
725
00:44:13.830 --> 00:44:17.400
like obviously the tourist speaks in English or German,
726
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:18.600
or I mean other language.
727
00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:23.860
And so they're not that kind of open
728
00:44:23.910 --> 00:44:27.860
to help everyone. So they, of course they answer you, okay.
729
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:32.200
But for me, this kind of experience is different because I speak Czech obviously.
730
00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:36.840
So when I, I always speak Czech, I'm, I've never, I never speak English, you know,
731
00:44:37.160 --> 00:44:38.320
So.
732
00:44:38.430 --> 00:44:42.400
[Nolan] Yeah. Uh, well, just, I got a question for you, um,
733
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.600
because it kind of ties into, you said you're a more smiley person,
734
00:44:45.670 --> 00:44:49.680
that's with your, um, Italian side. Um,
735
00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:54.760
but if you would say this is, uh, who values life, uh,
736
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.760
and pleasure more Italians or people from the Czech Republic?
737
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:02.750
[Monica] Italians. Italians, right. .
738
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:06.230
[Nolan] So, but what's in interesting about that is, um, I,
739
00:45:06.230 --> 00:45:10.230
I just made up that question for you, but they did one a similar one,
740
00:45:10.950 --> 00:45:12.460
uh, for some research, and they said,
741
00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:17.140
who values enjoying life and pleasure more East Germans or Italians, right?
742
00:45:17.140 --> 00:45:21.180
And of course everyone thinks the answer right away, Italians. Um,
743
00:45:21.990 --> 00:45:26.850
but it turns out that East Germans scored the third highest of all the
744
00:45:26.850 --> 00:45:31.610
countries on the dimension while, uh, Italians scored the lowest.
745
00:45:32.670 --> 00:45:33.160
[Monica]m What?
746
00:45:33.160 --> 00:45:38.040
[Nolan] And the reason the idea behind this is the deprivation de de deprivation
747
00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:40.280
effect, um, like to make sense of it,
748
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:44.600
it's like if you consider what people actually have compared to what they would
749
00:45:44.600 --> 00:45:48.830
like to have, right? So in, in Italy, uh,
750
00:45:48.830 --> 00:45:52.630
you have this lifestyle of, you know, sitting on the patios,
751
00:45:52.630 --> 00:45:57.550
spending two hours with lunch, for lunch, um, you know, enjoying life.
752
00:45:57.640 --> 00:46:00.630
Whereas in East Germany, you didn't have, you know, it's cold.
753
00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:03.390
You can't sit on the patio all year and things like that.
754
00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:07.190
So because they're deprived of it, they say that they value it more.
755
00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:08.023
[Monica] Makes sense.
756
00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:08.903
[Nolan] Which is,
757
00:46:09.240 --> 00:46:13.000
which is interesting when you think about your own values or your culture's
758
00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:13.560
values, right?
759
00:46:13.560 --> 00:46:17.920
Sometimes what you say doesn't actually reflect the behavior or the,
760
00:46:17.970 --> 00:46:21.680
or the people themselves. But, uh,
761
00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:23.760
do you feel like tech people are less friendly?
762
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:27.040
I've always had a good experience and whenever people go to Prague,
763
00:46:27.050 --> 00:46:29.320
at least I always hear incredible feedback.
764
00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:33.960
[Monica] Yes. I mean, if you look at the people in Prague,
765
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:36.640
and I went there in December, uh,
766
00:46:36.640 --> 00:46:40.910
before Christmas to see friends and family and actually said, okay,
767
00:46:40.910 --> 00:46:44.790
wait a second, I'm gonna look at Czech people walking, for example,
768
00:46:44.790 --> 00:46:49.030
in the city, they were not smiling, for example, they were just, you know. Um,
769
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:53.590
so I was like, I mean, I like Czech Republic, okay, it sounds
770
00:46:53.590 --> 00:46:57.750
Now like I don't really like that, but no, I like Chap Republic.
771
00:46:57.750 --> 00:47:00.070
I like Prague because Prague is a very nice city. Uh,
772
00:47:00.070 --> 00:47:04.990
of course if you go outside Prague, it's okay. There are just little cities,
773
00:47:05.160 --> 00:47:08.990
so it's different. But I mean,
774
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:11.290
I, I've always, well,
775
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:15.690
almost all always heard about people going there and that the
776
00:47:16.170 --> 00:47:21.170
Czech people were not pr well, people in Prague, uh, were not that friendly. So,
777
00:47:21.180 --> 00:47:22.013
uh.
778
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:26.530
[Nolan] Does your family there ever comment on you since until you smile a lot?
779
00:47:26.530 --> 00:47:29.280
Because I've heard that response too sometimes, you know, know when,
780
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:33.080
like a very bubbly person goes, well, I was Azek, I,
781
00:47:33.110 --> 00:47:35.720
I think they were talking about, uh, Russian actually.
782
00:47:35.720 --> 00:47:37.600
And the Russian just looks at the person like,
783
00:47:37.630 --> 00:47:41.240
what the fuck's wrong with your face? It's like, it's called a smile.
784
00:47:42.450 --> 00:47:45.400
Uh, but does your, does your family ever comment that you're like,
785
00:47:45.460 --> 00:47:47.280
why is she so bubbly? Or No?
786
00:47:47.730 --> 00:47:48.563
[Monica] No
787
00:47:49.090 --> 00:47:49.923
[Nolan] No.
788
00:47:50.730 --> 00:47:52.160
[Monica] No. [inaudible] Okay.
789
00:47:53.540 --> 00:47:57.640
[Nolan] Now, um, well I know if you don't know each other too well yet, but, uh,
790
00:47:57.640 --> 00:48:02.000
Ruben let me know that you love Spain, right? So,
791
00:48:02.740 --> 00:48:03.610
um, how,
792
00:48:03.610 --> 00:48:08.570
how do you feel that Spanish people and Italian people are different
793
00:48:08.580 --> 00:48:09.970
or similar? Like,
794
00:48:10.150 --> 00:48:14.370
was there anything that you had to do to adapt to the Spanish culture?
795
00:48:14.460 --> 00:48:18.610
Or do you feel like it just had a very similar, you know,
796
00:48:19.130 --> 00:48:20.930
southern Mediterranean feel or.
797
00:48:21.560 --> 00:48:26.360
[Monica] Well, I had, I had to adapt to the different, um,
798
00:48:27.790 --> 00:48:30.240
mealtime, let's say. That's good for me.
799
00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:33.560
I normally eat around one and they eat, you know, at three.
800
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:35.800
And the dinner the same thing. Like,
801
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:39.280
they eat around 10 30 something and I'm not really used to that.
802
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:40.720
So first thing I had to add, adapt.
803
00:48:40.780 --> 00:48:42.200
[Nolan] But you like beer. Are you,
804
00:48:42.200 --> 00:48:45.000
are you happy about the fact that you can drink beer in the morning?
805
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.160
Beer in Spain?
806
00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:46.950
[Monica] [Laugh] .
807
00:48:46.950 --> 00:48:47.600
[Nolan] Stay away.
808
00:48:47.600 --> 00:48:51.960
[Monica] From, yeah, I try to stay away from the morning bit [Laugh] , but, uh,
809
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.680
I think this side of the, the different difference our, well,
810
00:48:55.680 --> 00:48:59.120
when we eat in Italy and in in Spain,
811
00:48:59.190 --> 00:49:03.880
I feel it a lot because of the difference with the Czech Republic as well. Like,
812
00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:05.640
because in Czech Republic, um,
813
00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:10.640
we have dinner around 6:00 PM probably, you know, uh,
814
00:49:10.640 --> 00:49:12.720
but why the, because, uh,
815
00:49:12.720 --> 00:49:16.520
during the winter at 4:00 PM it's already dark in Czech Republic,
816
00:49:16.650 --> 00:49:21.600
so what can you do? Well, you just eat, you know? So the, the difference,
817
00:49:21.600 --> 00:49:25.760
I think I feel more the difference in Spain because I had also taste experience
818
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.540
in, in Czech Republic and then other things in Spain.
819
00:49:30.740 --> 00:49:35.540
Well, um, we like the hot water, so we,
820
00:49:36.030 --> 00:49:40.900
we like when it's sunny, when it's, you know, those kind of days.
821
00:49:41.310 --> 00:49:43.140
[Nolan] Oh, cuz you're from the north of Italy, right?
822
00:49:43.140 --> 00:49:48.140
[Monica] Yes, yes. Um, and it's this thing that I really suffer a lot, the weather.
823
00:49:48.190 --> 00:49:51.980
So when it's cloudy, for example, foggy, um, uh,
824
00:49:52.770 --> 00:49:55.380
I had, I have another kind of personality in those days.
825
00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:01.080
[Nolan] Now this is something I'm kind of curious about. I just thought of it. But, um,
826
00:50:01.080 --> 00:50:04.560
of course there are some frictions with the Southern Italians and Northern
827
00:50:04.560 --> 00:50:08.280
Italians, right? Uh, [Laugh] and, uh,
828
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.880
in Spain there are some frictions,
829
00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:12.080
well not between the south and the north of Spain,
830
00:50:12.080 --> 00:50:16.680
just frictions between like every comunidad, [Laugh] , [Laugh] .
831
00:50:18.140 --> 00:50:21.360
But do you feel as like an,
832
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:26.200
as a northern Italian that you have more things in common
833
00:50:26.200 --> 00:50:28.280
with southern Italians?
834
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.720
Or do you feel like you have more things in common with like,
835
00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:33.920
kind of like more northern, uh, Spaniards.
836
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:35.930
[Monica] [Laugh] Whoa.
837
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:38.690
[Nolan] Like we're in Castellon, so we're kind of just right in the middle. Yeah.
838
00:50:38.690 --> 00:50:41.850
Are not really as, I guess we're a little bit ward. Yeah,
839
00:50:41.850 --> 00:50:42.850
it's right in the middle. Hmm.
840
00:50:42.850 --> 00:50:44.130
[Monica] I've never thought about it.
841
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:46.450
[Nolan] Okay.
842
00:50:46.450 --> 00:50:51.320
[Monica] It's a good question. Hi. Oh, okay. Let, let,
843
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:55.240
let's look at the differences. Maybe you can help with the, the Spanish one.
844
00:50:55.240 --> 00:50:57.040
So in Italy, uh,
845
00:50:57.040 --> 00:51:00.920
well the north is normally seen as the place where there is more work.
846
00:51:01.090 --> 00:51:04.560
So people come from the south to the north before, I think work and.
847
00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:04.880
[Nolan] What Yeah.
848
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:07.920
[Monica] Exactly. Work faster. And then, uh,
849
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:12.040
people from the north go to the south for holidays because there is good sea,
850
00:51:12.040 --> 00:51:15.880
good beaches and food and you know, um,
851
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:20.880
like during the holidays people go to the south of Italy and during the rest of
852
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.760
the year people go to the north for, for work last's line, you know,
853
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:30.350
the big — in Spain. Okay, so in Spain, uh,
854
00:51:30.350 --> 00:51:31.790
well for example, people from Madrid,
855
00:51:31.790 --> 00:51:35.070
I guess they go to the beach as well to Valencia that part. Right.
856
00:51:35.560 --> 00:51:40.230
So the difference you meant is more in every comunidad, right,
857
00:51:41.220 --> 00:51:41.930
in every.
858
00:51:41.930 --> 00:51:44.610
[Nolan] Yeah. I think it's, it's cuz to me it feels like it.
859
00:51:44.610 --> 00:51:48.730
From what I know in Italy there's just more of a divide between the south Yeah.
860
00:51:48.890 --> 00:51:52.130
And the north. And in Spain I think it's a little bit more difficult to do that.
861
00:51:52.160 --> 00:51:54.290
Like it's just, uh, yeah,
862
00:51:54.290 --> 00:51:57.090
there's so many divisions sometimes right next to each other, right,
863
00:51:57.090 --> 00:51:58.690
like Valencia and, and then Catalonia.
864
00:51:59.020 --> 00:52:02.650
There's really different views politically and some different.
865
00:52:02.650 --> 00:52:06.290
[Monica] Things. Yeah. It's not that, it's not, there is not that cut as in Italy,
866
00:52:06.290 --> 00:52:09.610
for example, um, Spain. Yeah. Um,
867
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.090
well doing this work of differences in Spain, I think it's more,
868
00:52:14.090 --> 00:52:18.930
it's more hard than, um, than in Italy because uh,
869
00:52:19.290 --> 00:52:23.450
Italy is as you said, north and south in Spain.
870
00:52:26.690 --> 00:52:29.700
[Nolan] Yeah. It's harder. Well let's bring it a,
871
00:52:29.700 --> 00:52:33.260
a different direction than for you to adapt. What about food [Laugh] ?
872
00:52:33.260 --> 00:52:36.380
Do you think the food is,
873
00:52:36.750 --> 00:52:39.740
is okay here in Spain or do you think it's way,
874
00:52:39.740 --> 00:52:41.700
do you think it's better than in Italy or way? Yeah.
875
00:52:42.240 --> 00:52:45.820
[Monica] But I think there is, here in Italy we have more variety of food,
876
00:52:46.130 --> 00:52:50.380
I think than if, but in Spain, uh, that without talking,
877
00:52:50.910 --> 00:52:51.260
uh,
878
00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:56.060
about Czech Republic because that is also another [Laugh] another thing,
879
00:52:56.060 --> 00:52:58.940
um, cuz well in Spain
880
00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:04.960
I like Spanish food. I cannot say that I don't like Spanish food, but, um,
881
00:53:05.110 --> 00:53:10.040
I miss the pasta and the pizza sometimes like, you know,
882
00:53:10.040 --> 00:53:13.090
here we eat pasta, pizza like pizza,
883
00:53:13.090 --> 00:53:17.410
well pizza or pasta at least once a day we eat pizza here.
884
00:53:18.180 --> 00:53:22.640
And I think that is something similar for Spanish people with eggs,
885
00:53:23.070 --> 00:53:27.050
with uh, tortilla I think for breakfast is yeah,
886
00:53:28.410 --> 00:53:33.060
pretty normal to have tortilla right in, in Spain. Yeah.
887
00:53:33.430 --> 00:53:38.020
Um, so I prefer Italian food for this because there is more variety.
888
00:53:39.230 --> 00:53:41.990
Um, it, it's another,
889
00:53:41.990 --> 00:53:45.350
it's another way I think of thinking about food.
890
00:53:45.350 --> 00:53:49.690
If you think about tapas here we have the aperitivo
891
00:53:50.420 --> 00:53:52.220
which is the same idea. Okay.
892
00:53:52.220 --> 00:53:56.300
Having something to drink and something to eat before, um,
893
00:53:56.330 --> 00:54:00.670
before dinner. And in Spain as what with the tapas, something to drink,
894
00:54:00.670 --> 00:54:05.310
something to to eat, you know. Um, the, for example, this,
895
00:54:05.780 --> 00:54:10.190
this does not exist in Czech Republic, but because Czech republic, you know,
896
00:54:10.190 --> 00:54:15.070
historically didn't have access to so many food as we had
897
00:54:15.070 --> 00:54:19.430
for example. So, uh, they have a lot of meat,
898
00:54:19.430 --> 00:54:23.140
they have a lot of potatoes, for example potatoes, uh,
899
00:54:23.140 --> 00:54:26.380
basically the only vegetable that's they use in Czech republic.
900
00:54:26.640 --> 00:54:31.550
But just for historical point of view and also also because of
901
00:54:31.550 --> 00:54:34.830
the weather. Like if you think about what, when there is, I went,
902
00:54:34.830 --> 00:54:39.670
I say I went to Czech Republic in December and there were minus 12
903
00:54:39.670 --> 00:54:41.030
degrees Celsius.
904
00:54:41.860 --> 00:54:46.770
So what kind of vegetables can you have with minus 12 degrees?
905
00:54:47.240 --> 00:54:51.890
I, it, it's not possible. It could just have carrots and potatoes basically. So,
906
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:52.733
um.
907
00:54:54.070 --> 00:54:55.930
[Nolan] But here in here in Spain,
908
00:54:56.000 --> 00:55:00.250
I think also there's more variety with the food in the north. Like if you go to.
909
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:01.930
[Monica] I've never been there, there.
910
00:55:01.930 --> 00:55:02.250
[Nolan] I would.
911
00:55:02.250 --> 00:55:02.330
[Monica] Say.
912
00:55:02.330 --> 00:55:05.730
[Nolan] Let's say you tell me. Okay. Well there I would say like okay, um,
913
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.250
well a lot of Spanish people will say like, oh,
914
00:55:08.890 --> 00:55:12.410
almost seems that they're jealous of the Italian reputation.
915
00:55:12.410 --> 00:55:16.410
Like I've heard a lot of Spanish people get pissed off when people say like, oh,
916
00:55:16.410 --> 00:55:19.730
Italian food is much better. And then they usually say like, oh,
917
00:55:19.730 --> 00:55:20.930
but they just don't know Spanish food.
918
00:55:20.930 --> 00:55:23.690
And I usually just shut up at that point cuz I don't want to get into an
919
00:55:23.970 --> 00:55:28.490
argument. But in the Basque country, I do think it's on par with Italy also.
920
00:55:28.490 --> 00:55:31.690
Like it's more variety and more ex experiment.
921
00:55:31.690 --> 00:55:32.450
[Monica] You know, the thing,
922
00:55:32.450 --> 00:55:37.330
the thing that I saw is probably there is more similarity,
923
00:55:37.700 --> 00:55:41.170
uh, between like fish in Spain,
924
00:55:41.870 --> 00:55:45.490
the amount of fish that they, they eat and the south of Italy,
925
00:55:45.580 --> 00:55:49.130
if you think about my city Delino, it's from the north,
926
00:55:49.130 --> 00:55:52.810
so we have more meats than, see we don't have the seaside here.
927
00:55:53.020 --> 00:55:56.610
So if you go to the south of Italy, uh, fish,
928
00:55:56.610 --> 00:56:00.810
well once a day they eat fish probably as Spanish people.
929
00:56:01.340 --> 00:56:06.250
Um, here in the north we have more meat than, than fish.
930
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:12.250
So I think there is a little bit more of similarity with the south of Italy and,
931
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:13.593
and Spain.
932
00:56:15.140 --> 00:56:15.973
[Nolan] Yeah.
933
00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:20.230
[Monica] But I've never been to the north of Spain, so I had to.
934
00:56:20.600 --> 00:56:22.870
[Nolan] Oh, you have to, I had to go. You have to go. San.
935
00:56:22.990 --> 00:56:25.760
Sebastian is is incredible as well for.
936
00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:29.080
[Monica] For, well a lot of big pictures, right? The that, that's the,
937
00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:31.160
that's of the place of the pictures. Yeah.
938
00:56:32.570 --> 00:56:36.860
[Nolan] Yeah, yeah. Uh, Monica, just for bringing a little different direction, I,
939
00:56:36.860 --> 00:56:39.900
I ask everyone this on the show that's multilingual. Um,
940
00:56:39.900 --> 00:56:44.550
and everyone gives some different responses. I always find it interesting. It's,
941
00:56:44.550 --> 00:56:45.290
uh,
942
00:56:45.290 --> 00:56:50.230
how do you feel like your identity and your personality has changed or
943
00:56:50.500 --> 00:56:54.310
develops with the different languages that you speak? Like,
944
00:56:54.310 --> 00:56:57.830
do you feel like you have a different side of yourself that you're able to
945
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.490
express, um, express more,
946
00:57:01.490 --> 00:57:06.050
let's say in in Italian or in Spanish or English or Czech?
947
00:57:08.410 --> 00:57:09.243
[Monica] Uh,
948
00:57:09.620 --> 00:57:14.310
well let's start from the fact that I feel more Italian just due to the fact
949
00:57:14.310 --> 00:57:18.970
that I grew up in Italy. Now there is, but it's true that when I was,
950
00:57:18.970 --> 00:57:23.250
when I was a child, I started to speak very, I mean a bit later than other,
951
00:57:23.250 --> 00:57:28.130
other children because my brain was trying to understand
952
00:57:28.130 --> 00:57:31.730
which language was Czech and which language was Italian because my mom was
953
00:57:31.730 --> 00:57:34.730
speaking, just check with me and my dad's just Italian with me.
954
00:57:35.520 --> 00:57:39.900
And so I had to split the two languages and learn, okay, this word is in Czech
955
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:44.180
this word is in Italian. But then, okay, going to the school here in Italy,
956
00:57:45.460 --> 00:57:49.630
I grew up feeling more Italian than Czech. So,
957
00:57:50.120 --> 00:57:54.150
um, I think from the inside, from my perspective, it's hard to say this,
958
00:57:54.210 --> 00:57:56.790
but I ha I, I, yeah, sorry. Tell me.
959
00:57:57.810 --> 00:58:01.800
[Nolan] Oh, I was just gonna like more, more so just when you speak the language now,
960
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:04.960
right? Like, not, not how you feel, it's a general as a person,
961
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:09.080
but let's say when you switch over to Czech, when you switch over to English,
962
00:58:09.250 --> 00:58:12.920
do you start to notice that you behave in a different way. Like okay.
963
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:17.400
For instance, um, my, my friend and I were talking about this, he's,
964
00:58:17.660 --> 00:58:21.000
his wife speaks French and English. Um, he,
965
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:25.680
he does as well. And he mentioned that he knows that his wife is,
966
00:58:26.010 --> 00:58:30.200
uh, quicker to complain when she speaks French. And it's just like,
967
00:58:30.200 --> 00:58:32.480
and he just noticed it's almost a cultural thing.
968
00:58:32.700 --> 00:58:35.640
And I noticed it as well now in Spanish, like,
969
00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:40.040
I think I complain a bit more in Spanish than I do in English,
970
00:58:40.210 --> 00:58:43.080
because it's just more of a cultural thing. Like here, people,
971
00:58:43.080 --> 00:58:46.720
they just get together and they kind of complain. It's like that, the,
972
00:58:46.720 --> 00:58:51.480
the small talk, right? Like complaining about work and things and, um, well.
973
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:51.870
[Monica] If.
974
00:58:51.870 --> 00:58:55.040
[Nolan] Yeah, so things like that where you might just notice like, oh, in English,
975
00:58:55.040 --> 00:58:56.800
I talk more about this and Czech. I.
976
00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:59.600
[Monica] Talk more about this. But in check, it's through the in Czech
977
00:58:59.600 --> 00:59:02.440
When I talk in check, I am, I'm more serious.
978
00:59:02.780 --> 00:59:06.960
I'm not that happy. Uh, I don't know. My,
979
00:59:07.610 --> 00:59:11.960
my voice as well is not that high. It's not that I'm more serious,
980
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:13.640
but when I.
981
00:59:14.170 --> 00:59:15.320
[Nolan] So more Czech as.
982
00:59:15.710 --> 00:59:19.730
[Monica] Yeah. Yeah, more check. But for example, um,
983
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:22.930
I use my hands a lot when I speak,
984
00:59:23.190 --> 00:59:25.930
and that's super Italian thing.
985
00:59:26.070 --> 00:59:30.810
And when I speak in Czech, I often use my hands as well.
986
00:59:31.600 --> 00:59:33.940
And for example, a friend of mine that I met,
987
00:59:33.970 --> 00:59:37.260
I met this girl in Madrid when I was going my exchange.
988
00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:42.770
So I was living in Madrid. I didn't have this kind of influence of my hands,
989
00:59:42.770 --> 00:59:44.610
you know, moving all the time when I'm talking.
990
00:59:45.030 --> 00:59:49.810
And so that she didn't notice this particular part, this fact about me.
991
00:59:50.150 --> 00:59:53.050
But then we met again in Prague,
992
00:59:53.050 --> 00:59:57.770
in our republic after two years and a half that I was living here in Italy.
993
00:59:58.070 --> 01:00:01.050
And she said, oh, you are, you're much more,
994
01:00:01.050 --> 01:00:04.890
you look much more Italian right now because you move your hands a lot.
995
01:00:04.890 --> 01:00:07.610
And also the way of, of talking, you know,
996
01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:09.610
I was of course speaking check with her,
997
01:00:09.710 --> 01:00:13.890
but the pronunciation was much more stronger because, you know,
998
01:00:13.890 --> 01:00:18.770
in Italian we have the, uh, so we, in English, we tend to pronounce,
999
01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:22.450
uh, everything. So we have very strong pronunciation.
1000
01:00:22.710 --> 01:00:24.850
And I was sometimes, um,
1001
01:00:25.010 --> 01:00:28.050
using that kind of pronunciation in Czech as well.
1002
01:00:28.700 --> 01:00:31.130
So she sh she noticed that [Laugh] .
1003
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:34.620
[Nolan] Now what about emotionally?
1004
01:00:34.620 --> 01:00:39.220
Do you feel like you are more hot tempered in Italian than in Czech or in
1005
01:00:39.220 --> 01:00:39.790
English?
1006
01:00:39.790 --> 01:00:44.040
[Monica] Oh, really? Oh well, Uh, in,
1007
01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:48.980
in Italian, I think. I think, I think, yeah, it's always Italian,
1008
01:00:49.080 --> 01:00:52.820
but you know, it, it also depends where I'm living.
1009
01:00:52.820 --> 01:00:55.860
Because it happened to me first of when I was living in Switzerland.
1010
01:00:55.890 --> 01:01:00.250
I lived in Switzerland for two years, and something, um,
1011
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:04.930
I changed a bit there. Like I didn't feel so much Italian.
1012
01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:09.970
Um, I was also dreaming in French, for example, you know, now that I'm in,
1013
01:01:09.970 --> 01:01:13.490
in Italy, I would say Italian, definitely,
1014
01:01:13.490 --> 01:01:17.970
like now I really feel the, the fact of that, you know, um,
1015
01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:21.850
everything at the end goes back to the fact that I'm Italian.
1016
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:26.250
Okay, so, but, but what about you, for example?
1017
01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:31.950
[Nolan] Uh, well, for me, as I said, with the Spanish, Spanish, and I, no, like, I,
1018
01:01:32.030 --> 01:01:36.830
maybe I complain a little bit more, um, but I also just feel dumber, right?
1019
01:01:36.830 --> 01:01:38.710
Cause I have to search for the correct words.
1020
01:01:38.740 --> 01:01:43.190
It's just a little bit more difficult to, to express exactly what I want.
1021
01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:48.150
Um, but then with Flemish, I, I just feel a little bit more childlike.
1022
01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:49.310
Uh,
1023
01:01:49.310 --> 01:01:52.830
because I associate it with the language that I speak with my family and what
1024
01:01:52.830 --> 01:01:56.030
I spoke as a kid more often. Um, so like,
1025
01:01:56.030 --> 01:01:58.950
let's say talking about like sex or something like that, it's,
1026
01:01:58.950 --> 01:02:02.950
it feels a little bit weird to me in, uh, Flemish [Laugh] .
1027
01:02:02.950 --> 01:02:05.230
Whereas like in English and Spanish it's fine.
1028
01:02:05.570 --> 01:02:06.430
[Monica] But from.
1029
01:02:06.580 --> 01:02:07.413
[Nolan] Yeah.
1030
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.550
[Monica] From a linguistic point of view.
1031
01:02:09.640 --> 01:02:14.560
So you feel more comfortable in definitely in English when you had okay.
1032
01:02:14.560 --> 01:02:19.540
In English. [Nolan] Oh, yeah. Of course, [Monica] than Spanish. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
1033
01:02:19.540 --> 01:02:23.450
Okay. Same for me. Um, Italian n Czech. And I think,
1034
01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:27.200
um, coming back to the question about the personality,
1035
01:02:27.230 --> 01:02:32.160
I think that it's related to how comfortable I
1036
01:02:32.160 --> 01:02:36.110
feel in the country with the language, you know? Uh,
1037
01:02:36.110 --> 01:02:40.950
so I think it's also related. Um, like when I go to Czech Republic,
1038
01:02:41.700 --> 01:02:45.230
I feel comfortable because I speak the language,
1039
01:02:45.230 --> 01:02:49.870
but not till that point of how I feel comfortable here in Italy,
1040
01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:54.500
because, um, in my case, I've never studied the Czech grammar.
1041
01:02:54.570 --> 01:02:56.020
I've never been to a Czech school.
1042
01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:01.510
So if I have to talk normal things, of course I can talk with you.
1043
01:03:01.510 --> 01:03:05.310
But then if I have to talk to, to say something more difficult regarding,
1044
01:03:05.310 --> 01:03:08.270
you know, politics or going to the hospital, you know,
1045
01:03:08.270 --> 01:03:12.850
for some illness or something, um, it, it's,
1046
01:03:12.850 --> 01:03:16.250
it's hard. And because I don't feel in that particular situation,
1047
01:03:16.540 --> 01:03:19.170
so comfortable because I don't get all the works.
1048
01:03:19.170 --> 01:03:24.010
Maybe I don't know how to express myself in a good way.
1049
01:03:24.140 --> 01:03:28.650
So I think it's, it's related to, okay, I feel comfortable in this country,
1050
01:03:28.950 --> 01:03:30.890
but with this language as well.
1051
01:03:33.130 --> 01:03:36.690
[Nolan] Okay. Now what about humor wise? What,
1052
01:03:36.690 --> 01:03:41.450
how would you describe the different humor between Czech, Italy, Spain,
1053
01:03:42.170 --> 01:03:44.710
and which humor do you like the most.
1054
01:03:46.420 --> 01:03:50.960
[Monica] From? Uh, Italian [Laugh] .
1055
01:03:52.010 --> 01:03:52.843
Pardon?
1056
01:03:53.010 --> 01:03:55.540
[Nolan] Okay. So what, how would you describe Italian?
1057
01:03:55.830 --> 01:04:00.410
[Monica] Uh, well, it, you know, Italian humor. Italian humor. It's, uh,
1058
01:04:00.600 --> 01:04:03.250
well, it's easier not just from a linguistic point of view, because I,
1059
01:04:03.530 --> 01:04:06.370
I get everything, you know? So if there is something that makes me laugh,
1060
01:04:06.370 --> 01:04:09.250
makes me laugh because I get that word, but also with the hands,
1061
01:04:09.700 --> 01:04:13.530
so you don't actually need to, for example, okay. You know, do some,
1062
01:04:13.530 --> 01:04:17.490
say something particular. You just do a sign with your hand and that's, uh,
1063
01:04:17.490 --> 01:04:21.530
okay, that's something that means something. And so for the humor,
1064
01:04:21.530 --> 01:04:24.930
like for example, ah, okay, in Spain or in Czech Republic,
1065
01:04:25.030 --> 01:04:29.970
you really need to express yourself in order to the other person to get the
1066
01:04:29.970 --> 01:04:34.010
humor you're expressing. In Italy, no, you don't. You don't have to.
1067
01:04:34.100 --> 01:04:37.710
So there are plenty of things that, okay, you just.
1068
01:04:37.900 --> 01:04:39.390
[Nolan] Yeah. Okay. That's interesting.
1069
01:04:39.390 --> 01:04:44.210
So now between Spain, Czech,
1070
01:04:44.210 --> 01:04:48.890
and Italy, uh, which one do you think is most similar to like British humor?
1071
01:04:48.890 --> 01:04:49.690
Like, which is,
1072
01:04:49.690 --> 01:04:54.370
are any of them a little bit more dry and sarcastic and kind of delivered?
1073
01:04:55.060 --> 01:04:59.610
Um, yeah, just more dry, right? Like, kind of the opposite of what you're,
1074
01:04:59.610 --> 01:05:00.060
so obviously.
1075
01:05:00.060 --> 01:05:00.893
[Monica] No, not Italian.
1076
01:05:01.250 --> 01:05:03.450
[Nolan] Right? Because say not.
1077
01:05:03.940 --> 01:05:08.150
[Monica] Um, more try more. Wow. It's hard. Wow.
1078
01:05:10.220 --> 01:05:13.580
I don't, I don't think Czech. I don't think many checks.
1079
01:05:13.910 --> 01:05:17.720
[Nolan] No. Well, what about harsh jokes? Because I notice sometimes, well,
1080
01:05:17.780 --> 01:05:21.400
not so much anymore, but at the beginning, I would, uh,
1081
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:26.040
tell some jokes here. That response always get is like Que fuerte tio
1082
01:05:26.040 --> 01:05:30.720
Like that's, that's pretty rough, right? But in, uh,
1083
01:05:30.870 --> 01:05:34.520
like British humor, that's just what you do. Or even Canadians, like,
1084
01:05:34.570 --> 01:05:37.920
we just kind of make fun of each other the whole time when you're with a group
1085
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:41.640
of friends, right? But here in Spain I find you, you could do it too with some,
1086
01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:44.640
but obviously it depends on the person and depends on the individual.
1087
01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:49.200
But I think on average it's a little bit less acceptable to make like a .
1088
01:05:49.240 --> 01:05:53.920
[Monica] It's okay. Um, less we, because okay,
1089
01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:58.600
I've never tried that kind of jokes in Spain, neither in Czech Republic.
1090
01:05:59.530 --> 01:06:00.363
Um.
1091
01:06:00.950 --> 01:06:04.280
[Nolan] What about in Italy? Can, can the hum get pretty dark in Italy?
1092
01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:06.960
Or is it more like really just like body language type thing?
1093
01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:11.100
[Monica] It can become bit dark. Yeah. But, um, yeah,
1094
01:06:11.240 --> 01:06:14.900
not that much because we still, uh, we,
1095
01:06:14.910 --> 01:06:19.220
we are still that point of using, as I said, the hands, no,
1096
01:06:19.220 --> 01:06:21.860
that's the humor. That's the average of humor.
1097
01:06:22.310 --> 01:06:26.350
If you go a bit more into the, the dark humor,
1098
01:06:27.140 --> 01:06:30.910
well, obviously it's, it depends on the, on every person.
1099
01:06:31.200 --> 01:06:35.990
So there are people who like that, people who do not like it.
1100
01:06:36.620 --> 01:06:40.230
I think. Yeah, of course. So in Spain, you think that you need to,
1101
01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:45.010
to pay attention to what you say, how you express then?
1102
01:06:45.620 --> 01:06:49.120
[Nolan] Not really of, of course, it depends who I'm with and, and the individual,
1103
01:06:49.120 --> 01:06:52.080
but I'm just kind of just looking at the general
1104
01:06:52.120 --> 01:06:54.360
feelings of the type of, right? Like I,
1105
01:06:54.390 --> 01:06:57.800
I find if you can make someone laugh in a language,
1106
01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:01.080
that's when you start to show mastery of the language, right?
1107
01:07:01.080 --> 01:07:04.920
Because you understand not only the words, but you also understand
1108
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:07.480
the, the culture around it, right?
1109
01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:11.840
Like there are just certain expressions that I just love in Spanish and I can
1110
01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:14.000
just, there's, they're so funny. And then you,
1111
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:18.680
you do it in English and it just doesn't really come across the same way. Um,
1112
01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:20.593
you know.
1113
01:07:20.920 --> 01:07:22.180
[Monica] But if I think we're the same boat,
1114
01:07:23.130 --> 01:07:27.140
I do not have any kind of jokes that I do here in Italy that I can do,
1115
01:07:27.140 --> 01:07:29.380
for example, Czech Republic. Um.
1116
01:07:32.040 --> 01:07:36.770
[Nolan] What about sayings? Are there any like modismos or idioms in, uh,
1117
01:07:37.100 --> 01:07:40.650
in Italian that you really miss? Uh, cuz we're, we're almost coming up,
1118
01:07:40.650 --> 01:07:43.330
we're over an hour here. So just to wrap it up,
1119
01:07:43.330 --> 01:07:48.090
I kind of want to know some of the things you you miss in Italy word wise.
1120
01:07:48.090 --> 01:07:52.730
Is there a word or an expression that really, ah, like, I love this, or,
1121
01:07:53.100 --> 01:07:55.130
um, if it, if nothing comes to mind,
1122
01:07:55.130 --> 01:07:59.650
maybe an expression in Spanish that makes you so excited about living here?
1123
01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:04.610
Like, for me in Spanish, one I really love is, uh, [Laugh] . Like if you're,
1124
01:08:04.610 --> 01:08:08.450
if you're broke no tengo ni mierda en las tripas right? Like,
1125
01:08:08.450 --> 01:08:12.250
I don't even have shit in my intestines.
1126
01:08:12.860 --> 01:08:14.980
which are like English, which sounds kind of funny,
1127
01:08:15.040 --> 01:08:16.560
but in Spanish it just seems.
1128
01:08:16.650 --> 01:08:18.840
[Monica] Oh, and the one I like for example,
1129
01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:22.390
in Spanish is me has tocado la patata
1130
01:08:24.860 --> 01:08:29.190
I mean, lo que has dicho me tocado la patata, they really like, it's, it's touched me like what you said,
1131
01:08:29.190 --> 01:08:32.920
it really, really touched me, you know, like, um, [Laugh] ,
1132
01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:37.830
but you cannot translate it to check or Italian.
1133
01:08:37.830 --> 01:08:41.970
[Nolan] Okay. So I think the one you just used and the expression I used,
1134
01:08:41.970 --> 01:08:45.610
those are so Spanish. Like, it just, it encapsulate,
1135
01:08:46.420 --> 01:08:49.610
it really captures the culture in a way, right?
1136
01:08:49.610 --> 01:08:54.530
So what is a saying in Italian that you really feel like captures the
1137
01:08:54.530 --> 01:08:55.120
culture?
1138
01:08:55.120 --> 01:08:59.410
[Monica] A saying, woo.. Ah, wait, wait a second. Mm.
1139
01:08:59.480 --> 01:09:04.090
It's not really a saying. It's uh, it's a word that we use for example,
1140
01:09:04.090 --> 01:09:07.490
after lunch, uh, that you feel, you know,
1141
01:09:07.650 --> 01:09:10.770
tired because you, you just ate. So you,
1142
01:09:10.770 --> 01:09:14.850
you just wanna sit on the couch and doing nothing. You know, it's, uh,
1143
01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:19.530
La pennichella is that moment. Yeah, like
1144
01:09:21.770 --> 01:09:26.570
la pennichella but there is no way of traveling in Czech or Italian.
1145
01:09:26.570 --> 01:09:31.410
It's just how you feel. This, that sense of, you know, I don't wanna talk,
1146
01:09:31.410 --> 01:09:34.650
I don't wanna just focus on something.
1147
01:09:34.650 --> 01:09:38.490
I just wanna stay here and wait for my body to, you know, have the energy again.
1148
01:09:38.550 --> 01:09:43.530
Cuz I just eat and there is no way to translate it. I mean, because if you say,
1149
01:09:43.750 --> 01:09:46.690
nah, I'm uh uh, I'm not ready now to work.
1150
01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:50.010
I need to rest or la siesta.
1151
01:09:50.280 --> 01:09:54.770
It's not really siesta, you know, because siesta is the break you have. Okay.
1152
01:09:54.770 --> 01:09:59.650
You just relax pennichella I think it really gives you the
1153
01:09:59.650 --> 01:10:04.130
idea that you, okay, you just eat, you don't, you need to,
1154
01:10:04.340 --> 01:10:07.730
to rest. You need, uh, like no stress at all.
1155
01:10:08.990 --> 01:10:13.450
La pennichella. Yeah. That, that, this one then, uh, I can try and think about other,
1156
01:10:13.850 --> 01:10:18.500
other things, other will Wait, tell me.
1157
01:10:19.330 --> 01:10:22.000
[Nolan] Because yeah, words are fine too, right? Like, uh,
1158
01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:25.260
another Spanish one I'm thinking about is Picarro [Laugh] ,
1159
01:10:25.300 --> 01:10:27.820
which you can't really translate in English. Like it,
1160
01:10:27.820 --> 01:10:30.780
it translates to English as um, rascal,
1161
01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:35.780
but rascal's more for kids and Picarro is more with adults,
1162
01:10:35.780 --> 01:10:40.100
you know, someone that is intelligent in a sly kind of way,
1163
01:10:40.100 --> 01:10:42.020
maybe avoids taxes. Yeah.
1164
01:10:42.820 --> 01:10:47.230
Likes a little bit more of mischievous side of life. And it's also, again,
1165
01:10:47.240 --> 01:10:49.790
so Spanish and I love how,
1166
01:10:50.050 --> 01:10:52.350
and that that's what ties in with personality.
1167
01:10:52.350 --> 01:10:54.190
Like when you learn a new language,
1168
01:10:55.300 --> 01:10:59.800
you learn these new words that give you access
1169
01:11:00.410 --> 01:11:03.560
to different descriptions. And same in your own language.
1170
01:11:03.560 --> 01:11:07.510
When you learn a new word, you can better describe something that yeah,
1171
01:11:07.510 --> 01:11:11.070
you already know. But the second that you have a word for it,
1172
01:11:11.090 --> 01:11:15.000
you understand your own feeling about it better, right? Like,
1173
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:18.560
you know it's there, but then the second you get a word for it is like, ah, yes,
1174
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.120
that's it. And that's the beauty of.
1175
01:11:20.360 --> 01:11:23.160
[Monica] Learning. Yeah. Cuz it's not just about learning the lang the language,
1176
01:11:23.160 --> 01:11:27.160
it's about learning then what's behind the language, the culture, the, yeah,
1177
01:11:27.160 --> 01:11:30.040
that's true. That, that's, that's what I like about study languages.
1178
01:11:30.250 --> 01:11:34.040
[Nolan] Now, Monica, just to wrap up this episode, cause we're coming up on the end here,
1179
01:11:34.040 --> 01:11:38.200
and just to bring it all together, one thing that I just thought about with, um,
1180
01:11:38.380 --> 01:11:42.880
the chat, GPT and talking about these words and these idioms,
1181
01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:47.640
I find chat g p t so much better than almost any other
1182
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:51.560
translation service, at least for with English and Spanish. Um,
1183
01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:56.400
how many modismos it knows and its knowledge about specific
1184
01:11:56.400 --> 01:12:00.240
words like I asked, um, Chat GPT
1185
01:12:00.240 --> 01:12:04.280
what a guiri is, right? Um, listeners to the show,
1186
01:12:04.280 --> 01:12:08.360
if you've listened to some prior episodes, you know that I'm a guiri [Laugh] ,
1187
01:12:08.360 --> 01:12:12.920
this pretty much means white ass foreigner, right? And I asked, um, oh,
1188
01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:14.600
I wonder if I still have it here one second.
1189
01:12:14.620 --> 01:12:16.880
[Monica] But you know, I was talking to Yeah, sorry.
1190
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:21.080
[Nolan] Yeah, I said [inaudible] Sorry, I said que es un guiri and it gave,
1191
01:12:21.690 --> 01:12:26.000
um, a good explanation about like how it's a, it's a, uh,
1192
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.720
well it's in Spanish here, but I'll say it in English, like, um,
1193
01:12:29.620 --> 01:12:34.510
a tourist that's, uh, usually speaks English and isn't Latin,
1194
01:12:34.510 --> 01:12:38.910
right? So [Laugh] , and then I gave my explanation,
1195
01:12:38.910 --> 01:12:40.830
which is kind of more a funny one. And,
1196
01:12:40.830 --> 01:12:44.350
and in English it's like a guiri is someone that puts ketchup on the tortilla
1197
01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:49.670
mixes the verbs of estar and set uh, uh, said, uh, leaves tips,
1198
01:12:49.670 --> 01:12:52.990
looks for restaurants that are open between three and eights,
1199
01:12:53.020 --> 01:12:57.710
leaves the club at 10 and cries in city hall and, uh,
1200
01:12:57.710 --> 01:13:02.550
orders paella outside of Valencia. And then I asked Chat GPT
1201
01:13:02.550 --> 01:13:06.070
chief, uh, chief pt, what do you think of this response? And it said like, oh,
1202
01:13:06.070 --> 01:13:10.030
your response, uh, is, is very precise or is quite precise.
1203
01:13:10.250 --> 01:13:15.190
And you described many of the characteristics that are common among,
1204
01:13:15.400 --> 01:13:19.590
uh, tourists and, uh, expats in Spain [Laugh] , right?
1205
01:13:19.590 --> 01:13:20.430
So it's like this,
1206
01:13:21.240 --> 01:13:24.900
the understanding of the language and the culture is so much better than any
1207
01:13:24.900 --> 01:13:28.620
translation service, which I think is great for learning languages. What,
1208
01:13:28.620 --> 01:13:31.220
what do you think, how, let's just wrap it up with that. How,
1209
01:13:31.220 --> 01:13:32.940
how do you think about it in.
1210
01:13:33.030 --> 01:13:34.220
[Monica] In regards to. Yeah, I agree.
1211
01:13:34.220 --> 01:13:38.730
I think it it very good in explaining this particular,
1212
01:13:38.730 --> 01:13:42.730
this particular fact about a language. And, uh,
1213
01:13:43.790 --> 01:13:48.540
uh, I just wanted to, before I, I forgot about this, uh, but you know,
1214
01:13:48.730 --> 01:13:53.020
I was talking to, uh, other Spanish people now that I was there in Spain,
1215
01:13:53.080 --> 01:13:57.300
but the — I don't know what, but the funny part is that, uh,
1216
01:13:57.300 --> 01:14:00.700
they said they do not consider, for example, Italian as guiri.
1217
01:14:01.750 --> 01:14:06.530
And I asked why. I mean, we, we are not, I mean, we were not born in Spain.
1218
01:14:06.530 --> 01:14:10.250
We come from another country and we do not speak Spanish and why we're not Guiri
1219
01:14:10.250 --> 01:14:11.083
for new.
1220
01:14:11.410 --> 01:14:14.110
[Nolan] All right, we had a bit of a technical issue there. Uh,
1221
01:14:14.110 --> 01:14:15.510
something happened to Monica's sound.
1222
01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:19.710
So sorry to end the conversation without a conclusion.
1223
01:14:19.710 --> 01:14:23.550
And Monica did want to say bye and thank all the listeners. Um,
1224
01:14:23.550 --> 01:14:27.470
and of course I thank you as well. And if you want to support the show,
1225
01:14:27.470 --> 01:14:30.870
please go to withoutborders.fyi.
1226
01:14:30.940 --> 01:14:35.670
I do rely on paid subscriptions and subscriptions to make this all possible,
1227
01:14:36.010 --> 01:14:39.830
and I would really love to have you all as part of the community and so we can
1228
01:14:39.830 --> 01:14:43.230
discuss some of these topics further. All right, thanks for listening.