Dr. Forcina's Immigration Story: Italy - Argentina - America
As a child born in Italy during World War I, Dr. Salvatore Forcina's early years were spent poverty-stricken and without proper shelter. Like many Italians at the time, his parents followed a migration to Argentina. Shortly after arriving in Argentina, he was indoctrinated and abused in a Catholic boarding school for seven years, as they offered the only available avenue for "educating" the boy.
His indefatigable determination eventually compelled him to enter and graduate from medical school, emigrate to America and become the chief of surgery at two major hospitals.
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[Voices] Inescapably.Inescapably. Inescapably. </v>
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[Nolan] Inescapably Foreign. Welcome to Without Borders. I'm your host,</v>
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Nolan Yuma. If this is your first time tuning into the show,
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know that this is the podcast for nomads, expats, immigrants,
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refugees, and anyone else that feels inescapably foreign.
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Today I have the honor to be here with, uh, Dr. Salvador Forcina.
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He's a first generation immigrant,
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former surgeon and author of the forthcoming book, the American Doctor,
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which comes out on March 14th. Links will be in the description,
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but before we get all into that and into his story, um, Dr.
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Forcina or Sal, maybe it's most people call you Sal.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yes.</v>
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[Nolan] Yes. All right. Well, Sal, how are you? How are you doing today? Doing.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Very well, thank you. How are you?</v>
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[Nolan] I'm good. I'm excited to have you on the show. Uh, so Sal,</v>
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before we get into the beginning, uh, where are you right now?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, I am in United States in Florida, sunny Florida.</v>
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[Nolan] Okay.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] The villages called The Villages is, um, one hour North Orlando,</v>
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and it's, uh, the population like
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130,000 people. They have like 60 Golf courses.
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And life here is a likely being in paradise and
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being alive because you usually to go to paradise, you got to die first.
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[Nolan] [laughter] say you're a fan. You're a fan of Florida.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah, I'm not Florida. Yeah. Oh, okay. Anymore. I don't like cold anymore.</v>
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[Nolan] [laughter] understandable. Well sell, um,</v>
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maybe we'll get back into your story in America a little bit later, but now let,
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let's start from the beginning. Yes. Uh,
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so you were born in Italy during World War ii. Yes. And, um,
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I know in the book you describe some of the extreme poverty that you've
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experienced there.
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So can you tell us a little bit about how these experiences shaped your
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life, how they motivated you,
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and if there are any particular stories that stand out during this
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time or from during this time?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, the first of all,</v>
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what motivated me was I was a small child,
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and my father used to talk to me and used to explain how difficult
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life was for them during the war, during the,
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when on the German, after the Italy capitulate in World War ii,
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we were a Roman Naple across the Monte Casino was the famous battle of Monte
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Casino. There thousands of people die, many people died.
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There were bombs all over. So it was really disaster.
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So what my father used to tell me when he was a child,
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he tried to study, but he went to second,
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third grade only. And they,
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they have to go and help the family go to the mountain with the
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grapes, with the ship. The goats were not,
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they had to know because the family were numerous people
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in the family in general, and the resources, they were limited,
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and they live in base of what they harvest.
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And sometime the harvest was good. At the time, the harvest no,
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was not so good. So anyhow, so he used to tell me.
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And so that's why he, in 1947, he used to be a work, a worker.
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He work in the ceramic.
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It is a factory in Score where my parents used to live,
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where the tile on the floor were made with
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ceramics. And in 1947, this company happened.
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The ceramic was destroyed because of the bombardment.
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And, um, so the moved to Argentina created, build a new factory.
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And, uh, and this was very good for my father because he was thinking that they,
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uh, was good for us because, uh, we could have a future.
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There was plenty of food there, and there was at the end of the war,
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and there was nobody to be any more war because a tragedy or the World War ii,
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in which he lost his brother.
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My grandfather was miss for many months. We didn't know.
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They, they didn't know he was a German prisoner. He could die,
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whatever. So, you know, he was a lot anxiety for the family.
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So my father used to talk to me, and of course when we moved to Argentina,
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eventually he call us in 1948, my brother,
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me and my mother to go to Argentina. And, um,
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and there was no easy, it was a very, we were the immigrant there. And the,
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the land that we don't have any support, really. You are in your own.
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You speak the language. You have, you didn't know your neighbor,
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the customer different, and then you just have a hope.
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And so this where my father used to talk to me about this hope that
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I didn't understand in the beginning, but I,
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I gradual gradually start to grow up,
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start still to, uh,
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start to reasoning about life or whatever reading.
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I start to read. I understand.
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I start to see a little bit of light,
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and I say, I want to improve. Of course,
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my father is a simple way.
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When I was eight years old, when we went to Argentina, he was, when the trauma,
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in some way, he got a post-traumatic syndrome that we are talking today.
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At that time, there wasn't, people didn't even know.
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[Nolan] No word for it, but of course it existed. No.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] I mean, it was, it was a, people just, they said, you have a problem.</v>
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There's your problem. Nobody have time for you to,
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to sit down and talk about your problem.
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There was a question of survival again. So,
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so that's why he tried to tell me.
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And so he had his hands, he showed the hand,
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they had callous dealing with the bricks and this,
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and that was a rough hand and developed callous. And my father used to say,
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look at, look at it this touch it, this what you want to do in the future.
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And he keep repeating that, repeat me and this work, you know,
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like you have a, the water and the rock. You have a drop of water,
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a steady drop, steady drop with one week, one month, one year.
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Nothing happen alone with after so many years
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that rock of water is going to make a hole in the rock.
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And this in some way was the effect that motivated me
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to start to study. But of course,
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this didn't happen overnight. This took long time.
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And then, you know, we can talk about,
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there was a lot of falling down, getting up, crying in between.
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But all the time I had the desire to look up
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to see the sun behind the mountain. I couldn't see it.
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[Nolan] Yeah. Now, just so we get a picture,</v>
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how old were you when you moved to Argentina?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Eight years old. Just eight years old. Yes. I was born in 1941.</v>
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Uh, so I will be 80, 82 years old. Very soon.
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Old guy, [laughter] ;.
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[Nolan] Okay. So you moved there when you were eight years old.</v>
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You were there with your mother and your brother,
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and then were you living with your father there as well,
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or was he working in a different city? No.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] No, no. He was in the same city as a man. If I were,</v>
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he was just a few blocks away. But, uh,
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I was with my parents until I was 11 years old.
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And my father was very frustrated with me because I didn’t want to study.
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Uh, I was with the kids. We were in the, in,
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in us, in the this town called Azul
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in the Azul in the, uh, Buenos Aires province.
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And they, my father, my parents couldn't afford a house at the city,
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so had to be outside rent in a house there. And we were,
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there was no asphalt, the sidewalk,
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there were not tiles or whatever.
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[Nolan] Was it a village or like a campo? Sorry, a, a farm.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Or No, no, I was out outskirt. The the rural area.</v>
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Outside. Okay. Outside. So what happened, we had to,
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we spend most of the time in the street kicking the board. We,
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our board was regular, the socks, it sucked.
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And we put some cloth there, whatever wrapped the best we could.
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And we make a round something, and we kick the ball,
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we kick the ball so much that the shape
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we stop kicking the ball. When the shape become like a sausage,
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it still be… Yeah. That was our,
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our entertainment.
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[Nolan] And what eventually motivated you to stop kicking the ball and,</v>
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uh, seek an education?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Okay, so what happened was that, um,</v>
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close to my parents' house, seven blocks away. There was a small church there.
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And one time some priests show up there.
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And I was, I go around,
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whenever I start to talk with one of the priest,
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he start to show me an album with pictures where they have a horse.
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The kids who were playing soccer, they, they were in,
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in pool, whatever. Okay. And of course, for me,
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I was 11 years old, not even 11 years. So this was, oh my God.
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And it's, so they say, would you like to join us if you want to try?
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I went to my father and I explained that to him. And so my father,
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so like somebody hit the lottery, so,
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so of course he encouraged me, whatever. Okay. Now, so I went with this priest.
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This was, uh, in the outskirt capital.
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I saw my parents once a year, December, for Christmas, one month.
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I was separated from my parents since I was 11 years old. Uh,
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if I tell you psychological, the trauma,
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I suffer because you’re on your own
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11 years old, and, the priest were a German priest.
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And the main thing, you had to pray night and day,
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and you had to study. And to me, those two things,
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you know, was very difficult for me.
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So the first year I did very poorly and then very poorly,
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because what happened, you know,
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my father used to talk to me about that when he was a small child
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in the beginning of 19th century, in 1920, 25, whatever,
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there were no radio, there were no tv. There were —
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They have nothing for an entertainment.
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So what happened once a year or twice a year,
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the priest had the small square there,
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plus a musician that they play a segment of the opera or
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some concerto, some popular music, something like that.
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And so my father used to talk to.
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[Nolan] Me, but no tango.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] No, no, no, no. Italy.</v>
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So what happened was that, um,
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this way to me, coming from my father,
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I didn't understand completely.
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It create curiosity in me and little, so what happened,
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and eventually used to talk about the Violin to
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me. Well, why, so.
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[Nolan] About the what, sorry</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] oh, violin</v>
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[Nolan] The violin. Yes, violin.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] So what happened was that name, there was an orchestra in the,</v>
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in this college in jovenado, the jovenado for the youth.
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And you have a instructor,
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and you had to apply to play an instrument, teach you.
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And I, uh, the violin, I want to play violin.
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So I applied, and I was rejected because my grade was terrible.
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So that hurt my, my feeling hurt my feeling.
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And, uh, but the following year, my grade got better.
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And I got into the,
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this orchestra to play me to study when I came. And, uh,
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that's why I became, uh,
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I like music very much, and I'm toward the classic,
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the Opera concert, and this and that.
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And so this is something I, I'm, I'm,
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it's not, I took courses or whatever. I'm self like stealing knowledge,
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you know, because at time I book selling nothing.
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So whatever had the opportunity to, to, to learn something, whatever.
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Okay. And so,
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and so that's why I had the curiosity about everything.
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[Nolan] And how many people were in this school.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Uh, maybe in less than one hunded.</v>
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[Nolan] In less than 100.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] But this is a boarding school. Like I say, I slept in the, in the,</v>
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in this place.
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And discipline was, uh,
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we were punished sometime corporal punishment too. Now.
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[Nolan] Do you feel this, this extreme discipline had a positive effect on you,</v>
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or do you think it was more negative?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Um, I think was combination of thing. First of all,</v>
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when I went there, I'm, I'm not say I was wild, you know,
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I was 11 years old. I was acting, jumpy here,
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run here, you know, they think that they, the normal,
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when I was there for seven years, when I left the place,
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I was very shy, very timid,
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introverted. And eh,
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and the teaching really was not the best teaching because you
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memorized, you memorize.
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There was no reasoning. Just to give an idea, if you allow me,
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okay. I was,
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when I left this, this jovenado.
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and I went to the public school because I had to take some course
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because the school grade in this place were not recognized
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by the state. So what happened when I had to do,
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I had to take two exams,
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and this was already within very short time,
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old start in the scholastic year, I had to repeat the third grade.
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They made me repeat. So what happened was that then
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they, they, I was very,
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very uncomfortable in front of people. And so,
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and I remember when I was a teenager,
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I start to the library, just to give you an idea,
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the library and the priest,
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they give you permission to go to the library. Now, the books, of course,
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they were selected books relied for the saint to whenever, okay.
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And those books, they were, the pages were missing.
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Couldn selected, a lot of with the ink
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was erase, covered up, whatever. So, you know, they,
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they want, it's like in the middle age, she was,
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there is no such a pure life or whatever. Look, and the,
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the idea we were kids and the ceremony about the demo and this and that.
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So we were scared to death. And this is,
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if you have to realize this is a big place,
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tall wall, ceiling, dark corridor,
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you know, typical, uh, middle-aged thing. When you are a young kid,
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your child, uh, and you're a teenager, yes.
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At night, you don't want to get up or go to the bathroom, whatever.
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Sometime you pet to give an idea.
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The psychological effect, it was for me,
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everything was,
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was something that I had to go one step by the time, really,
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when I really learn, I study very hard,
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lot of time wasting time because you are,
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you read and read and read that I, but there was no,
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it was to today what they understanding they have today.
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After I came to America and I had to pass exams,
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because when I came to, I graduated in 1968.
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And then from there, I went to Italy.
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I was supposed to and specialize there,
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but I had to wait until September, for example.
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So while I was in the beach there,
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I made some friend of my family here in United States and then just say,
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what are you doing here? You should come to United States. Of course,
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I wrote to my family, and, uh, I came to United States,
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but what happened was I didn't speak English.
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My degree was well recognized in United States.
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[Nolan] Yes. Just before, before getting to the United States. Yeah.</v>
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What kind of broke you free from,
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I assume this indoctrinated type of education that you experienced,
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right? As you mentioned, the, some of the pages were ripped out,
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some of the information was blacked out.
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So I assume in a Catholic, um, school like that,
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that some of the information that might have been ripped out relates to biology
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and maybe some evolution. But now you're a doctor.
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So what eventually helps you to break free from that indoctrinated mindset and
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gave you this interest in medicine and, and to become a doctor?
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, I don't, the fighter became a doctor. I don't,</v>
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it was related to that, but just going to the point,
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I just want to touch your point.
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I got in trouble because I guess as a teenager I
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start to ask question. And I guess one of the question,
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whenever I don't remember exactly happen in so many years,
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I was a reporter to the superior and I went in front of the superior.
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So he really gave it to me. He really verbally,
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he put me down and he say, if you continue this trend,
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you are going to be expelled from this institution.
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And if you expel, what are you going to do in your life in the future?
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Because you are very intel. You are not intelligent.
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I was told I was not intelligent. Of course, at that time.
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You get so much abuse that everything become routine.
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[Nolan] And it wasn't just, uh, verbal abuse. Was it also physical abuse back then?</v>
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Yeah.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] They shook you up or, or they punish you. They say you cannot have,</v>
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the meal was very simple meal. And sometime they say,
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but you cannot have dessert for three days or whatever,
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four punishment or whatever. You know, that corporal punishment.
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And so, so this is, this is the,
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the environment in which grew up.
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So he told me I was not intelligent,
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so they didn't bother me at that time because in another,
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another fall pulling down.
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But eventually I said, grow up, you know,
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I don't want the revenge or whatever.
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But I wish he could have seen what
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I have accomplished
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against all instead of encourage me and to gimme good advice.
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I say,
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somebody guide you for a better life or whatever,
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to achieve a goal. He put me down and doesn't need.
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[Nolan] [Inaudible]. So who,</v>
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00:21:38.580 --> 00:21:42.690
it sounds like your father played a big role in your life as a role model.
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Was there anyone else that influenced you to study medicine or.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, the, the fact that I study medicine was that the,</v>
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when I finished in nationale,
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00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:58.810
in his like a bachillerato I don't know how to
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compare with the, with college in United States School.
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[Nolan] Bachillerato. Well, in Spain, bachillerato is like the last years of high school. Yes.</v>
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Um, yes.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah. Before you go to university.</v>
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[Nolan] Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't,</v>
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I guess we don't have that in Canada or in the States.
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Like bachillerato exists here in Spain. Um, but yeah,
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it's the last few years just before going to university. Yeah.
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] That's it. Now we understand each other.</v>
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So what happened was that my friends when whom I went to, uh,
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bachillerato, the school I was in, the son of the immigrant,
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they had the battle of the bottom. You're in the basement. Yeah. The bottom,
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my friends, they were, the parents were lawyer,
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people that have the farm
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thousand acres land with goat, seep, cows, you know,
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uh, doctors, whatever. So anyhow,
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so my father, remember when I finished, well, south,
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what are you going to do now? I said, well,
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my friends are going to the university and I would like to try.
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I don't know. So, but I said, well, listen, you know what, we,
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your mom, we are going to help the best we can. As long as you,
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you are willing to succeed, to, to accomplish something,
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we going to help you the best we can.
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And I remember my father,
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they were building the house one brick at a time after part-time when
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he was coming back at night from the ceramic where he work
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and saw my family had built two,
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two rooms in which we were living… finished.
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So what happened was that my father said, well, you know what, son,
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you go to university and if you have one year or
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two years, and after that you quit whatever we could, we cannot support you,
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whatever. Okay? At least you can say, you know what?
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I went to the university and I had two year of medicine, uh, uh,
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one year of medicine people. That was the mentality.
355
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That was the mentality. It is not, they say, no,
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you go and want to go there and go to plant. So then top of the mountain.
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[Nolan] Yeah. So that hell a good thing. You had such, um, supportive parents.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] That's, uh, that's good. That's, see, we have, that's the important thing.</v>
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That's what I'm saying. Because here in United States, you know,
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family is the more important thing.
361
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My parents couldn't give me materialistic and couldn't gimme nothing,
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but they gimme the support.
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And they opened my eyes because I saw how they
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had to struggle, how to, to.
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[Nolan] So did they, did they go to America with you or did you go alone? No.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] No, I went alone. I went to Italy and from Italy flew to United States.</v>
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[Nolan] And ah, okay.</v>
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] And here by have my cousin and aunt with whom I was</v>
369
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staying there until, you know, I had, you had to,
370
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what happened was, first of all, I had to take a English lesson,
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had to New York University, and of course nothing is free here.
372
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I had to borrow money for my uncle and family
373
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and eventually pay of course after years. And, um,
374
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and I had to take those courses.
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[Nolan] So now
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Yeah. Oh, sorry. Is this, um, the thinking about the language is,</v>
377
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was it easier for you to learn Spanish or English?
378
00:25:47.140 --> 00:25:52.030
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well see Spanish, well, I was eight years old when I went there.</v>
379
00:25:52.860 --> 00:25:55.230
[Nolan] Okay. Spanish more naturally.</v>
380
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[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Kicking the ball in the street going.</v>
381
00:25:58.690 --> 00:26:02.990
But I was 28 years old when I came to this country in the United States.
382
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[Nolan] Okay.</v>
383
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.500
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] And it only happened, like I say before,</v>
384
00:26:07.830 --> 00:26:10.860
my degree was not recognized here.
385
00:26:12.070 --> 00:26:16.520
I learned — need to be practicing medicine in the United States.
386
00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:21.470
At that time, I don’t know today you had to take a special exam, cor,
387
00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:26.050
foreign Medical, foreign Educational council,
388
00:26:26.050 --> 00:26:27.490
foreign medical graduate.
389
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.170
This is an exam that was given all over the world.
390
00:26:31.650 --> 00:26:36.570
American Embassy for the foreign graduate and the American graduate
391
00:26:36.810 --> 00:26:38.010
outside United States.
392
00:26:39.310 --> 00:26:42.610
And of course at that time when they were taking like 30,000 people were taking
393
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an exam and they were opening was maybe 3000, something like that.
394
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And they did,
395
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when I came to United States,
396
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I find out about the exam. There were multiple choices,
397
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.770
this type of exam, and never saw this exam in my life.
398
00:27:05.420 --> 00:27:10.290
So imagine 28 years old to, to recently, in very short time,
399
00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:14.850
you had to reason and have an answer to make a, uh,
400
00:27:15.530 --> 00:27:18.710
to tell you the truth,
401
00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:20.990
when I went to take the first exam in New York,
402
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.990
it was a big ballroom, maybe a thousand doctor or whatever.
403
00:27:27.360 --> 00:27:32.270
And that having such a headache,
404
00:27:32.270 --> 00:27:37.000
such that I used to get up, go drink some water, walk.
405
00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:43.560
So suddenly the proctor say, you've got half an hour to finish.
406
00:27:44.330 --> 00:27:48.870
And of course I was, I'm familiar with the situation,
407
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:51.230
I start, I panic
408
00:27:53.260 --> 00:27:55.960
and I start to B, B, C, C, D, D.
409
00:27:56.250 --> 00:28:00.450
So of course end up in a disaster, you know.
410
00:28:01.220 --> 00:28:03.170
[Nolan] So you didn't pass the first time?</v>
411
00:28:04.790 --> 00:28:09.260
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] No, no. This is a, eh, this is a big exam. This is,</v>
412
00:28:09.260 --> 00:28:14.060
I wasn’t, anyhow, eventually, excuse me.
413
00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:19.260
I made experience, I learned, I start to talk to some people, whatever.
414
00:28:19.260 --> 00:28:24.000
Okay, so final limit your pass. Now, when I passed this exam,
415
00:28:24.350 --> 00:28:25.320
I cannot practice.
416
00:28:25.550 --> 00:28:30.010
I had to apply to special hospital where you special,
417
00:28:30.310 --> 00:28:31.490
you end up with you,
418
00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:35.320
you five year old training in search,
419
00:28:35.320 --> 00:28:38.880
internship and residence program. So you live almost,
420
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.240
you're in coal every other than night. You're, you work, you work in Glen.
421
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:47.880
Very hard. Very, but you know, that had been my life.
422
00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:51.790
[Nolan] Yeah. Ah, life of an immigrant.</v>
423
00:28:51.790 --> 00:28:56.510
Now for the acculturation experience is what I find interesting is that
424
00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:01.630
in Argentina there's a very big Italian community as well.
425
00:29:01.630 --> 00:29:03.710
Especially when you had to go, right? Yes, yes.
426
00:29:03.710 --> 00:29:05.510
And the same in the United States.
427
00:29:05.510 --> 00:29:10.470
There's also a large Italian community of immigrants. Yeah. So for you, in,
428
00:29:10.470 --> 00:29:14.870
in both cases, uh, did you find that you, um,
429
00:29:15.580 --> 00:29:20.350
that you, your family or you yourself surround was,
430
00:29:20.350 --> 00:29:24.230
uh, found many Italians to find support?
431
00:29:24.330 --> 00:29:27.830
And did you find yourself within an Italian community at all?
432
00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:32.410
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, in Argentina, where my parents went, there was a,</v>
433
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.190
they built this factory. They were maybe like a 60,
434
00:29:37.060 --> 00:29:41.640
around 60 Italian family in which we were
435
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:44.360
carpenter, and so,
436
00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:50.360
and they were almost living in the, in the community.
437
00:29:51.510 --> 00:29:55.810
But the difference was there was because of the war,
438
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:57.500
the ignorance,
439
00:29:59.370 --> 00:30:03.880
me and somebody else went to school or the other went to work
440
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.620
and they became, one was an extension.
441
00:30:07.620 --> 00:30:10.100
The poverty that they have in Italy,
442
00:30:10.190 --> 00:30:14.980
poverty economically and poverty intellectually.
443
00:30:15.790 --> 00:30:18.280
So when you had that,
444
00:30:18.510 --> 00:30:21.440
that type of poverty that create
445
00:30:22.910 --> 00:30:25.580
animosity, jealousy
446
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:32.790
in and possibility were limited
447
00:30:33.730 --> 00:30:38.470
possibility. So they just keep, the only thing they afford more food,
448
00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:42.930
more me, but it was an extension than what they have,
449
00:30:43.110 --> 00:30:45.330
the life they have in Italy. At that time.
450
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:50.210
United States was different because United States, you come,
451
00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:56.100
you, when I came to this country, I saw the opportunity,
452
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:57.450
the,
453
00:30:57.450 --> 00:31:02.420
I remember I was say stay with my uncle now close to
454
00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:05.700
the, no, a few blocks away. It was a big hospital,
455
00:31:05.730 --> 00:31:07.500
in the center there.
456
00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:11.560
And I used to go to the library there to to study,
457
00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:15.190
used to, and in the way back,
458
00:31:16.810 --> 00:31:20.620
particular day in the sidewalk, there were bicycle,
459
00:31:20.770 --> 00:31:23.140
they were tricycle, they were the,
460
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:27.140
the garbage put outside from the, to be picked up.
461
00:31:27.280 --> 00:31:30.770
The refrigerator were,
462
00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:35.850
I was not used to that because over there in Argentina,
463
00:31:37.620 --> 00:31:42.070
I never saw such a thing. You don't throw away anything. Just to give tape.
464
00:31:42.100 --> 00:31:46.840
Just to go back a little bit, to give it back in Argentina,
465
00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:51.020
what happened was, what? In La Plata,
466
00:31:52.130 --> 00:31:56.010
I, I used to get up, woke up all the time.
467
00:31:56.210 --> 00:32:00.410
But when I had to take the exam preparation around four o'clock in the morning
468
00:32:00.790 --> 00:32:04.690
and was so cold because it's humid there.
469
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:08.370
So what happened was, I used to have a pajama. I used to have my pants,
470
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.330
I did a sweater and I used to bundle up with the,
471
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:17.090
with the blanket and, and you shaking or whatever. Okay.
472
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:22.130
That's, so one day we were walking back from the university for the
473
00:32:24.140 --> 00:32:27.380
faculty, and we saw this, um,
474
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.760
throw, thrown away this, um,
475
00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:36.300
to heat, to cook.
476
00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.060
It was a simple thing.
477
00:32:42.340 --> 00:32:46.050
So they was all rusty, whatever. So we pick it up that,
478
00:32:46.470 --> 00:32:48.370
and we took it to our place,
479
00:32:49.250 --> 00:32:54.070
and we went to the harvest store. We bought 700 feet for plastic,
480
00:32:55.340 --> 00:33:00.120
a plastic tube. And we connect from the kitchen, the,
481
00:33:00.970 --> 00:33:05.920
to this place, this thing here. And we'll warm up the house, the room.
482
00:33:06.700 --> 00:33:11.570
Of course, looking back now, we could have with carbon monoxide or whatever.
483
00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:12.433
[Nolan] Yeah.</v>
484
00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:18.090
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] We were irresponsible, but we also aware you leave the moment.</v>
485
00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:23.870
You leave the moment. And so risk were there all the time.
486
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:27.360
So anyhow, yeah.
487
00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:31.970
[Nolan] So all, all of this, all this, all of this adversity, um,</v>
488
00:33:31.970 --> 00:33:36.930
I've read about your book. Of course your book comes out in, uh, on March 14th.
489
00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:40.450
So I haven't read the book yet. Just, uh, what it's going to be about.
490
00:33:40.710 --> 00:33:45.290
And I know you write a lot about this adversity and how to
491
00:33:45.890 --> 00:33:49.090
overcome this. Yeah. Through having a goal, um,
492
00:33:49.090 --> 00:33:54.090
through having love in your life. And a lot of this makes me think of,
493
00:33:54.540 --> 00:33:58.890
um, Victor Frankl's Man's Pursuit of Meaning as well.
494
00:33:58.890 --> 00:34:01.250
Are you familiar with the I'm.
495
00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:02.083
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Not.</v>
496
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:04.210
[Nolan] Okay. So well, I'll just,</v>
497
00:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.490
I'll quickly go over it cause I'm just curious about your insights and any,
498
00:34:07.930 --> 00:34:12.740
anything to add to this because, uh, Victor Frankl, uh,
499
00:34:12.870 --> 00:34:15.780
he writes Man's Search of, uh, search for Meaning,
500
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.740
and he describes his experiences as a prisoner in, uh,
501
00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:22.100
Nazi concentration camps. Oh.
502
00:34:22.300 --> 00:34:25.220
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] [Inaudible] Are you talking about Ann Frank? No, I'm sorry. No.</v>
503
00:34:25.220 --> 00:34:27.860
[Nolan] No, no. Vic Victor Frankl. Frankl, um, yeah.</v>
504
00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:30.420
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah. Okay. No, and I'm not familiar.</v>
505
00:34:31.150 --> 00:34:34.880
[Nolan] Okay. And he, he comes up with, uh, like lo logo therapy.</v>
506
00:34:35.020 --> 00:34:39.680
And what it kind of comes down to is that humans need to
507
00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:45.160
identify their purpose in life. And if you have that purpose,
508
00:34:45.830 --> 00:34:50.240
then you are able to withstand some of these horrors
509
00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:55.040
and, and try to get through this extreme, um, adversity.
510
00:34:55.370 --> 00:35:00.000
So I was wondering if you see any connections there with your work
511
00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:03.880
or, um, with your, with your life stories?
512
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.970
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah, I think so. I think so, because there has to be a purpose.</v>
513
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.170
Okay. To me, the purpose was to climb the mountain to me,
514
00:35:13.460 --> 00:35:16.210
to reach the top of the mountain. That was my goal,
515
00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:19.430
because I'm in the valley.
516
00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:23.430
The valley is dark because the sun is behind the mountain.
517
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.680
So how all the shape. And so, so what happened?
518
00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:32.600
You had to settle a goal. Do you want to be somebody?
519
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:38.790
Of course, I want be somebody. But you see what happened.
520
00:35:39.340 --> 00:35:43.190
I didn't have the view, that when I came to United States,
521
00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:48.630
I saw that the possibility were immense and there was more possibility
522
00:35:48.630 --> 00:35:52.260
for me to succeed. When I was in Argentina,
523
00:35:53.330 --> 00:35:57.300
I saw my parents. When it is like, you go one step forward and,
524
00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:02.250
one step backward. My parents were in Argentina for 30 years.
525
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.330
They worked very hard. Whatever they have accomplished economically,
526
00:36:06.490 --> 00:36:11.010
their revolution came. They were plenty of revolution there. The flesh of him,
527
00:36:11.010 --> 00:36:14.990
they lost everything overnight, say.
528
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.060
So that's the system in which
529
00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:25.200
I grew up. So you had to have a goal, and you had to work for the goal.
530
00:36:25.330 --> 00:36:28.200
Of course, everybody had different experience
531
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:33.540
and their goal can be modified or whatever. But for me,
532
00:36:34.110 --> 00:36:38.140
my life had been, I had to climb the Himalaya.
533
00:36:38.900 --> 00:36:43.140
How many people down line try to climb in a mountain?
534
00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:44.560
The Himalaya.
535
00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:49.300
But how many people come reach the top and put the flag and say,
536
00:36:49.410 --> 00:36:53.970
I conquered, I, you know, not too many people that,
537
00:36:53.970 --> 00:36:58.060
that's the way I saw my life. But of course, as that dream,
538
00:36:59.150 --> 00:37:01.480
I start to see, for me in life
539
00:37:03.210 --> 00:37:06.070
was like being in a town tunnel, dark tunnel.
540
00:37:07.080 --> 00:37:10.980
And it was at the end of the tunnel, there was a dim light,
541
00:37:12.170 --> 00:37:12.930
small light.
542
00:37:12.930 --> 00:37:13.330
[Nolan] Now,</v>
543
00:37:13.330 --> 00:37:18.250
what advice do you have for people to hold on to that light or hold onto
544
00:37:18.250 --> 00:37:22.170
to that goal in the face of this darkness or in the face of this adversity?
545
00:37:22.170 --> 00:37:24.080
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, first of all, you hit,</v>
546
00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:28.770
you had to have motivation inside a desire.
547
00:37:29.030 --> 00:37:30.170
You had to be hungry.
548
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:35.140
[Nolan] And do you believe that people can be born with motivation?</v>
549
00:37:35.140 --> 00:37:39.660
Or is this something that people learn through the circumstances in their lives?
550
00:37:39.660 --> 00:37:43.940
Like, do you think certain people are born more resilient?
551
00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:48.580
Or do you think that anyone has the opportunity to be resilient to
552
00:37:48.580 --> 00:37:49.820
failures and.
553
00:37:49.850 --> 00:37:53.020
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, I would imagine that maybe there isn't the DNA,</v>
554
00:37:53.160 --> 00:37:55.260
the particular spot there,
555
00:37:55.260 --> 00:38:00.060
or general common sense is telling me we are born
556
00:38:00.220 --> 00:38:01.053
naked.
557
00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:06.480
And you wrap yourself around with the surrounded.
558
00:38:06.570 --> 00:38:09.360
So that's why it's very important to have parents,
559
00:38:11.470 --> 00:38:14.500
to have a family, to have a panel. Because
560
00:38:16.470 --> 00:38:20.330
listen, look at the, in the jungle, in the forest, the,
561
00:38:20.750 --> 00:38:23.650
the deer, whatever, have the baby there.
562
00:38:24.070 --> 00:38:26.370
And the baby is unprotected.
563
00:38:26.370 --> 00:38:30.320
What is the chance for the baby that deer to succeed?
564
00:38:32.270 --> 00:38:33.300
So they,
565
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:37.720
you have to have your parents because the pen can give you love,
566
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.780
can give you maybe roof. I can, in the moment of depression,
567
00:38:43.910 --> 00:38:48.670
in the moment you are down, they can hug you. They can hold you hand.
568
00:38:49.260 --> 00:38:54.110
I remember my mother used to tell me so many time I was nervous.
569
00:38:54.110 --> 00:38:58.230
Many times I was ready to quit more than once because, you know,
570
00:38:58.460 --> 00:39:03.110
I had to climb the mountain, but I didn't have any shoes. I didn't have gloves.
571
00:39:03.220 --> 00:39:06.350
I had to barefooted. And you know, you bleed.
572
00:39:07.990 --> 00:39:11.880
You know, that was a hero. Whatever, you know, I was,
573
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:16.020
I want to go beyond what was my
574
00:39:16.630 --> 00:39:17.463
to achieve.
575
00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:24.490
[Nolan] What about for those who don't have family to fall back on</v>
576
00:39:24.490 --> 00:39:27.890
because you, you didn't at some points in your life as well, right?
577
00:39:27.890 --> 00:39:30.090
Because when you, as you said in the boarding school,
578
00:39:30.090 --> 00:39:33.930
you experienced this type of loneliness. So in that case,
579
00:39:33.930 --> 00:39:36.130
what did you fall back on to keep going?
580
00:39:36.970 --> 00:39:41.500
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, I had to, there were, I didn't have a choice. I just, okay, [laughter] ;,</v>
581
00:39:41.500 --> 00:39:44.140
I had to, you know, I had to keep going.
582
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:48.780
But the advice I have today is different because first of all, in they,
583
00:39:48.850 --> 00:39:52.180
this area, internet, look at, look at what we are doing here.
584
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.500
I'm talking to you. You see me, I see you. And, and we are changing.
585
00:39:59.620 --> 00:40:03.890
We change an opinion. So today the,
586
00:40:03.910 --> 00:40:07.610
the environment is different. You see, when I was in Argentina,
587
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:12.850
I had to study without books. I had to, I, I couldn't,
588
00:40:12.850 --> 00:40:16.770
my parents couldn't buy books. So what happened was, my friend,
589
00:40:16.770 --> 00:40:19.250
they were wealthy on Friday afternoon.
590
00:40:19.600 --> 00:40:22.530
They used to go to Buenos Aires for La Plata. They bueno,
591
00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:26.210
have a good time and come back Monday, early in the morning, whatever.
592
00:40:27.150 --> 00:40:30.440
That was the time when I, I got their books and I,
593
00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:34.090
I study with their books, make note and this and that.
594
00:40:35.220 --> 00:40:40.010
So this the motivation, the desire. Everybody have a good time. I could,
595
00:40:40.010 --> 00:40:41.930
I afford to have a good time when they have the money.
596
00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:47.100
Maybe if I have the money, then my parents could provide for me everything.
597
00:40:47.100 --> 00:40:51.140
Maybe I, I won't have accomplished anything because you know, what happened,
598
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:53.500
say one. You know,
599
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:57.410
I have everything when you have to go the extra mile.
600
00:40:59.520 --> 00:41:02.950
So the the important, now we were talking about the guy,
601
00:41:03.250 --> 00:41:07.030
you have the internet, you have the teacher today,
602
00:41:07.450 --> 00:41:11.550
you have the coaches. Four minute, definitely you have the priest,
603
00:41:11.550 --> 00:41:15.510
the rabbi or the uh, uh, minister or whatever.
604
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:20.390
Or you have a friend, dear friend or whatever. So life today,
605
00:41:20.650 --> 00:41:25.210
the communication is much easier, much is better.
606
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:26.833
[Nolan] Mm-hmm.
607
00:41:28.180 --> 00:41:31.600
And I know that's something else that you write about in your book.</v>
608
00:41:31.940 --> 00:41:36.560
You talk about the, of relationships and helping others. Yes. Right?
609
00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:40.680
That a big thing to stay motivated is knowing that you're doing something for
610
00:41:40.680 --> 00:41:42.360
other people in this world.
611
00:41:42.370 --> 00:41:43.880
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yes. Because so, yes.</v>
612
00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:46.040
[Nolan] Oh, continue.</v>
613
00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:49.280
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Sorry. Yeah. So first of all, being a doctor,</v>
614
00:41:50.170 --> 00:41:52.860
I had been a, I'm a surgeon. I was a surgeon.
615
00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:58.060
I did general surgeon trauma and avascular bypasses
616
00:41:58.630 --> 00:42:00.300
in the last 15 of my life.
617
00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:04.980
I did advance laparoscopy is a new thing that there was no training before.
618
00:42:05.130 --> 00:42:10.020
I have to take special courses in which through small holes in the
619
00:42:10.020 --> 00:42:14.020
belly and when they come and the video you do, uh,
620
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.500
the sophisticated surgeon. And I was very good at that.
621
00:42:18.720 --> 00:42:23.340
But in order to do all the, to look, do all that, you have to have motivation.
622
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:28.260
The desire, I, I finished my training. I could have said, no, I,
623
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:32.780
I'm clamped over this. No, I want all the time to go beyond the same thing.
624
00:42:32.780 --> 00:42:35.380
When I went, I graduated in Argentina,
625
00:42:36.090 --> 00:42:40.970
and I'm going to tell you enormous opinion now. Okay?
626
00:42:42.150 --> 00:42:46.930
My friend at that time, you were a professional,
627
00:42:46.930 --> 00:42:50.650
you were a doctor. So what did they do? They married, well,
628
00:42:50.700 --> 00:42:55.130
they're married to the daughter of estanciero. I have many.
629
00:42:55.670 --> 00:43:00.130
And so, and maybe they were so well off that they had,
630
00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:03.810
they didn't have to practice medicine, they didn't specialize, whatever. But no,
631
00:43:03.810 --> 00:43:06.130
for me it was all the time the opposite.
632
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.380
I want to be something. And,
633
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:14.940
and I felt very proud because my parents, excuse me,
634
00:43:14.980 --> 00:43:19.500
leave to see me, excuse me, leave to see me.
635
00:43:21.210 --> 00:43:25.380
Came to United States of several s during, during the life.
636
00:43:26.660 --> 00:43:29.520
And they saw me to be chief, a surgeon in two hospital.
637
00:43:30.630 --> 00:43:31.463
[Nolan] Wonderful.</v>
638
00:43:31.490 --> 00:43:33.950
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] And this is the, it's only a few miles from,</v>
639
00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:38.530
for New York and New Jersey, only a few miles.
640
00:43:38.870 --> 00:43:42.090
And uh, so, you know, they,
641
00:43:43.910 --> 00:43:45.010
the thing is that
642
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:50.090
they couldn't gimme everything, but I,
643
00:43:50.090 --> 00:43:53.090
they gimme the desire to succeed,
644
00:43:53.620 --> 00:43:57.880
to be and go beyond what they have accomplished.
645
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:03.220
And that's my desire to everybody. Because the reason, when I wrote this cook,
646
00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:07.710
we used to go, when we were young with my wife,
647
00:44:07.710 --> 00:44:10.190
we used to go to different parties here.
648
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:14.980
And all the time you meet different people, politician, lawyer, whatever,
649
00:44:14.980 --> 00:44:18.020
teachers, whenever common people, whatever.
650
00:44:19.460 --> 00:44:23.520
And they used to, we start to talk and they say, Dr. Forcina
651
00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:28.120
for when you come Italy. Oh, Italy, you know what, with my husband,
652
00:44:28.370 --> 00:44:32.800
we go to Italy. Uh, we went to Italy. Italy several times. We like the food.
653
00:44:32.890 --> 00:44:37.850
We went this, we went to that. And so, and I, I like history, whatever.
654
00:44:37.900 --> 00:44:40.690
So I read a lot. I traveled a lot. I,
655
00:44:40.720 --> 00:44:43.250
when my parents were alive for many years,
656
00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:47.010
I used to go with my family every year. And many time I used to go alone,
657
00:44:47.810 --> 00:44:52.810
visit my parents and eventually travel all over, all over Italy.
658
00:44:53.220 --> 00:44:57.570
Because I like the history, I like the music, I like the, I like the art,
659
00:44:57.630 --> 00:45:02.340
you see? And so what happened, I start to talk and then,
660
00:45:03.520 --> 00:45:07.580
and when the conversation came about, well you, Italy,
661
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:09.300
how come you went to Argentina?
662
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:13.060
All this that I mentioned before used to come out.
663
00:45:13.670 --> 00:45:16.850
And some people they,
664
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:21.970
in which the parents or grandparents and also some
665
00:45:21.970 --> 00:45:24.570
of them, they were Russian Jew. I have one friend of mine,
666
00:45:24.720 --> 00:45:28.210
they were Tony that in he, a chapter about him,
667
00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:32.590
this guy engineer for MIT, he got,
668
00:45:33.260 --> 00:45:38.180
when he was elect 250 patents. So,
669
00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:42.660
and he, a ancestor were Russian Jew from Siberia. Also,
670
00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:46.860
They came in 1800 and they had to struggle. The same thing. Nothing.
671
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:51.540
But this country give the opportunity, they put the lie there,
672
00:45:52.290 --> 00:45:56.060
they, you see the liar, the far, far away. And you can walk,
673
00:45:56.970 --> 00:46:00.120
go try to reach that direction.
674
00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:04.670
[Nolan] Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. And there, there's some stats on that too,</v>
675
00:46:04.670 --> 00:46:06.830
in America where most of the,
676
00:46:07.050 --> 00:46:11.670
the big companies and a lot of these successful people are immigrants. Yes.
677
00:46:11.830 --> 00:46:16.830
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Right. And as a matter of fact, those are the guys. They work hard.</v>
678
00:46:17.530 --> 00:46:21.980
They were hard because the Indian, the Korean, whatever, because what happened,
679
00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:24.580
they, they had the opportunity in their country.
680
00:46:24.580 --> 00:46:28.620
They come here as an open field. So that's why,
681
00:46:29.190 --> 00:46:33.270
going back to the, when I was saying the motivation, why I wrote this book,
682
00:46:35.350 --> 00:46:40.230
you know, many times they told me, when I was telling you what interesting,
683
00:46:40.230 --> 00:46:44.030
you should write down this. And, and I never pay attention because, you know,
684
00:46:44.030 --> 00:46:48.590
I was busy with my practice. I didn't have time. But when I, okay, and then,
685
00:46:50.010 --> 00:46:54.150
and I say, who, who tired If it's a right book and this, so anyhow,
686
00:46:54.150 --> 00:46:55.310
when I retire,
687
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:59.670
retired to Florida and I have more time.
688
00:47:00.130 --> 00:47:03.070
And my granddaughter was born Leno.
689
00:47:03.370 --> 00:47:07.950
Now she said it's going to be eight years old in April. In May.
690
00:47:08.290 --> 00:47:11.670
May. So what happened was to think about,
691
00:47:12.630 --> 00:47:14.930
and I start to write down thing, write down,
692
00:47:14.930 --> 00:47:19.530
say eventually I send a copy to my daughter, said A that's beautiful.
693
00:47:19.630 --> 00:47:24.390
You should write and keep writing. He writing to took me,
694
00:47:24.490 --> 00:47:28.320
you know, took me years.
695
00:47:29.890 --> 00:47:33.900
This book came about. And the reason why I wrote this book,
696
00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:37.700
and I dedicate this book to my granddaughter, Leno.
697
00:47:39.240 --> 00:47:43.480
because you know, I'm have a certain age, I,
698
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:48.270
how long I going to be around, but I, of course I want the best for Leno.
699
00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:52.910
And I know when she's going to be a teenager, a difficult year,
700
00:47:54.160 --> 00:47:56.840
maybe more than one situation.
701
00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:01.500
She had to make difficult choices. Perhaps,
702
00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:06.590
perhaps this book one night where she's
703
00:48:06.590 --> 00:48:07.470
down whatever,
704
00:48:07.490 --> 00:48:12.330
she pick up this book and she start to read and start to
705
00:48:12.330 --> 00:48:14.290
think my grandpa look at.
706
00:48:17.450 --> 00:48:22.110
[Nolan] Now you, you talk a lot about the, the accomplishments and um,</v>
707
00:48:22.110 --> 00:48:27.030
you talk very fondly about America and the opportunities that you had in
708
00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:30.950
America Yes. As an immigrant, right? So you really have this story of the,
709
00:48:30.970 --> 00:48:34.470
the American dream as an immigrant. Yes. But nowadays,
710
00:48:34.680 --> 00:48:37.470
do you feel that immigrants, uh,
711
00:48:37.470 --> 00:48:42.390
in America still have more opportunities in America than let's say,
712
00:48:42.390 --> 00:48:44.070
some other places around the world?
713
00:48:44.070 --> 00:48:48.110
Or do you think it's becoming more difficult to achieve these opportunities?
714
00:48:49.330 --> 00:48:53.550
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Opportunities there as if you look at the border,</v>
715
00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:57.790
there are millions of people. They're going through the desert,
716
00:48:59.690 --> 00:49:03.870
pay the coyote. Come to… still.
717
00:49:03.980 --> 00:49:06.550
I don't see many people. Well,
718
00:49:06.550 --> 00:49:11.190
in Europe you have the situation of Africa going through Mediterranean and
719
00:49:11.300 --> 00:49:15.310
people are desperate, but, you know,
720
00:49:16.100 --> 00:49:16.590
need.
721
00:49:16.590 --> 00:49:20.950
[Nolan] People. That's what I was going to ask as well. When we look at Europe, um,</v>
722
00:49:21.010 --> 00:49:23.430
and then America, um,
723
00:49:23.620 --> 00:49:28.470
I wonder if immigrants in Europe have more opportunities in
724
00:49:28.470 --> 00:49:29.870
America or if, uh,
725
00:49:29.870 --> 00:49:33.350
more opportunities than in America or if Europe makes it easier.
726
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.110
Because what I also think about,
727
00:49:35.290 --> 00:49:39.470
and I was going to ask you what you think about the American healthcare system,
728
00:49:39.470 --> 00:49:43.270
because you've worked the healthcare system for so long. Um,
729
00:49:43.270 --> 00:49:44.310
what are your opinions?
730
00:49:44.310 --> 00:49:48.110
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Well, you know, European system is socialized medicine.</v>
731
00:49:49.080 --> 00:49:51.670
And it has limitations.
732
00:49:53.450 --> 00:49:57.500
I have seen, I have a chapter about my mother when she was in the hospital
733
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:05.410
I mean, when I saw there, first of all,
734
00:50:05.410 --> 00:50:08.330
this country, men, this is changing here too.
735
00:50:09.050 --> 00:50:14.030
When I was in practice was a private practice. It was a private practice.
736
00:50:15.790 --> 00:50:20.080
If I didn't do surgery, I work in the,
737
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:24.270
the, I didn't get the salary from the hospital. I had an office.
738
00:50:24.430 --> 00:50:26.350
But of your office secretary,
739
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:31.750
people came to my office and any surgery or were referred
740
00:50:31.750 --> 00:50:34.310
to me by other doctor that knew me.
741
00:50:35.330 --> 00:50:38.280
So I scheduled the surgeon in the hospital,
742
00:50:39.370 --> 00:50:41.990
but the hospital doesn't pay me a penny.
743
00:50:43.640 --> 00:50:48.550
So that was the system. So anyway, you had to, there was an incentive.
744
00:50:48.650 --> 00:50:50.710
You had to work hard. You had to,
745
00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:54.550
that's why I took special courses all the time. There's a lot of money.
746
00:50:54.550 --> 00:50:58.070
You had to travel to different places, laparoscopy, da da.
747
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:02.700
So now I see now here also
748
00:51:03.210 --> 00:51:05.570
things are changing. First of all,
749
00:51:05.680 --> 00:51:09.330
what I see here in America is the
750
00:51:10.740 --> 00:51:14.420
big corporation not taking over the control.
751
00:51:15.260 --> 00:51:19.800
And of course we, you cannot compete with them because they have the money,
752
00:51:20.150 --> 00:51:21.360
they had the connection.
753
00:51:21.650 --> 00:51:26.290
So what they do is this big corporation to your town
754
00:51:26.890 --> 00:51:30.310
and put the surgery centre five six surgery centre.
755
00:51:30.900 --> 00:51:32.710
They own three or four hospital.
756
00:51:34.550 --> 00:51:39.130
And so you are independently, you are independent. Nobody know you,
757
00:51:39.270 --> 00:51:42.900
you cannot compete with them. So what happened?
758
00:51:42.950 --> 00:51:47.520
So that's why the new resident, when they finish the training,
759
00:51:49.060 --> 00:51:50.270
nobody know you.
760
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.510
So they go and we have a contract with this corporation
761
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:00.800
in which they pay for three year to year or whatever you had
762
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:04.080
to produce. And they pay your salary.
763
00:52:04.120 --> 00:52:05.680
at the end of three year,
764
00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:10.720
if you didn't produce or whatever you are in, in the street again.
765
00:52:12.470 --> 00:52:17.010
And, but the thing change also in this country, where is the best system?
766
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:20.690
I think I was, because when I was in practice,
767
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:26.370
you had to cover the emergency room cover
768
00:52:26.370 --> 00:52:27.850
emergency room. And when there was a,
769
00:52:28.330 --> 00:52:31.410
somebody with appendicitis or gal bladder, whatever, they,
770
00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:33.210
they require surgical care.
771
00:52:33.510 --> 00:52:36.170
You weren't called and you had to go to the hospital.
772
00:52:36.350 --> 00:52:37.930
Now you go to the hospital.
773
00:52:38.650 --> 00:52:41.540
Most of those people in general didn't have insurance.
774
00:52:41.950 --> 00:52:46.270
So you do the salary for free please.
775
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:51.350
[Nolan] So, so, uh, would you do the surgery for free? Then in many cases,</v>
776
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:55.310
do doc doctors have surgeons have that option in the United States to give the
777
00:52:55.310 --> 00:52:56.350
surgery for free?
778
00:52:56.810 --> 00:52:59.670
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yes. When you are covering the emergency, then is no insurance.</v>
779
00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:02.190
What are you going to do? You have your have mandate.
780
00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:04.510
You can get in trouble if you refuse.
781
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:09.890
[Nolan] Okay. Cuz I've heard so many horror stories as well, right. Where people,</v>
782
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:12.490
they don't get covered. Um,
783
00:53:12.700 --> 00:53:17.570
or then later they are expected to pay and then they're in debt for the rest
784
00:53:17.570 --> 00:53:21.290
of their lives later. Sure. You know, like it's just even medicine wise, like,
785
00:53:21.290 --> 00:53:25.480
it's like Nexium, the, the heartburn medication in the states,
786
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.960
it's $215. Whereas in Spain it's $58.
787
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:31.120
In the Netherlands it's like $23. Yeah.
788
00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:34.880
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Sure. Of course there are, there is no a perfect system.</v>
789
00:53:35.340 --> 00:53:39.680
I'm sure there are, there are cases like that, but oh, you can have,
790
00:53:40.390 --> 00:53:42.940
if you, poverty is tricky when I work,
791
00:53:43.370 --> 00:53:47.380
they are not going to be able to collect anything because you don’t have anything.
792
00:53:50.930 --> 00:53:55.560
[Nolan] It does seem like many people end up in debt because of it though, or end up.</v>
793
00:53:55.690 --> 00:53:59.280
Um, like there are also stats that, uh,
794
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:04.240
there are lower hospital or lower doctor visits in the United States than
795
00:54:04.240 --> 00:54:07.080
in many other first world countries. Right.
796
00:54:07.090 --> 00:54:11.640
Because the healthcare is so expensive or because it's so hard with
797
00:54:11.640 --> 00:54:13.120
insurance companies there.
798
00:54:13.150 --> 00:54:17.120
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah. But by law, by law in United States, I'm not a politician.</v>
799
00:54:17.220 --> 00:54:20.400
And by no United States. Yeah. [laughter] if you go to the emergency room,
800
00:54:22.080 --> 00:54:24.410
they cannot then deny you a service.
801
00:54:25.460 --> 00:54:25.950
[Nolan] Okay.</v>
802
00:54:25.950 --> 00:54:29.790
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] They cannot deny, say now the doctor doesn't get paid,</v>
803
00:54:30.470 --> 00:54:35.410
but the hospital get paid because the government allow certain
804
00:54:35.410 --> 00:54:40.150
amounts and say that beside that,
805
00:54:40.610 --> 00:54:44.790
the hospital, the bill from the hospital, in some way you can say where
806
00:54:46.670 --> 00:54:51.130
you have better insurance, something that costs $5,000,
807
00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:54.260
maybe they going to charge you $10,000,
808
00:54:54.260 --> 00:54:57.580
$15,000 in some way that compensate.
809
00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:00.940
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, whatever, I'm not,
810
00:55:01.240 --> 00:55:05.610
but I'm telling you what I have seen. But see,
811
00:55:05.610 --> 00:55:09.290
but the beauty about this is that see the facility,
812
00:55:11.180 --> 00:55:15.900
whatever, you go to any hospital here you have, you have equipment,
813
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:17.700
the you got.
814
00:55:17.710 --> 00:55:21.630
So that's why they may say the soil advance in another places.
815
00:55:22.500 --> 00:55:25.850
I have all horror story that the,
816
00:55:26.550 --> 00:55:30.610
the they, you have this lady pregnant,
817
00:55:30.890 --> 00:55:35.570
ready to deliver, they go to new hospital, I say, no, we are closed here,
818
00:55:35.570 --> 00:55:39.450
you have to go and you have to hundreds of mile away, whatever.
819
00:55:39.550 --> 00:55:44.130
And you know, I, I hear horror stories Europe about that too.
820
00:55:44.790 --> 00:55:47.960
[Nolan] Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've heard some horror stories here as well. Yeah.</v>
821
00:55:48.060 --> 00:55:51.440
But in general, I must say that the stories I've heard from countries,
822
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.920
like in Belgium, especially, in Netherlands,
823
00:55:53.990 --> 00:55:57.200
I definitely hear less horror stories there than in America. [laughter] ;.
824
00:55:57.630 --> 00:56:00.000
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Some recently the northern country,</v>
825
00:56:01.700 --> 00:56:03.550
they are more organized, I guess.
826
00:56:04.540 --> 00:56:05.880
[Nolan] Yes. .</v>
827
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:08.760
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Organized. The Mediterraneancountry, you know?</v>
828
00:56:10.240 --> 00:56:13.970
[Nolan] Yeah, yeah. I've, I'm experiencing that here in Spain. [laughter] ;, they just,</v>
829
00:56:13.970 --> 00:56:18.010
there does seem to be a lack of organization unless there is a party. Uh,
830
00:56:18.290 --> 00:56:20.970
the parties here I think are very well organized.
831
00:56:22.910 --> 00:56:26.000
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Politician. Yeah, sure. The union, whatever. Oh no, not.</v>
832
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.800
[Nolan] Not the, not the political parties, the, the fiestas.</v>
833
00:56:29.810 --> 00:56:32.760
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Oh yeah, sure sangria, [laughter] ;, [laughter] ;</v>
834
00:56:34.710 --> 00:56:37.960
that. Yeah. Well, you know, listen,
835
00:56:39.670 --> 00:56:40.600
this is the world.
836
00:56:44.420 --> 00:56:48.140
Everybody act
837
00:56:50.390 --> 00:56:53.770
and glass wherever things better I guess. I don't know.
838
00:56:54.660 --> 00:56:59.060
I did my part. And you know,
839
00:56:59.060 --> 00:57:02.840
the only thing is that first of all, you,
840
00:57:03.100 --> 00:57:06.760
you don't know you have a goal. [inaudible]
841
00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:13.770
I have many friends of mine. I have many friends, and this is sad.
842
00:57:14.630 --> 00:57:16.930
They're doctors.
843
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:22.230
They came from the South America for different countries and they have certain
844
00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:24.030
age, they have children,
845
00:57:24.380 --> 00:57:27.990
they have wife and they had to work
846
00:57:29.620 --> 00:57:33.090
to support the family.
847
00:57:33.190 --> 00:57:38.170
And at the same time they had to prepare with those exam.
848
00:57:38.510 --> 00:57:43.170
And you know, those exams are very difficult. Very difficult.
849
00:57:43.170 --> 00:57:47.970
Because you see what happened, first of all, when you come here,
850
00:57:48.990 --> 00:57:53.810
the exam is in base of what you have study all your
851
00:57:53.970 --> 00:57:58.770
life for Easter, the beginning of your career, you have anatomy, physiology,
852
00:57:59.170 --> 00:58:03.980
histology, biology, You,
853
00:58:03.980 --> 00:58:08.260
Name it. And this is during the seven year you're doing that. Now
854
00:58:10.070 --> 00:58:14.850
it's like an athlete. When you pre prepare yourself for a competition,
855
00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:16.740
you reach a peak,
856
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:23.260
you reach the right time when you can raise around the 5,000
857
00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:28.180
mile. But doesn't mean that you can write around the 5,000 mile
858
00:58:28.910 --> 00:58:33.470
anytime. So this is the exam, what it was about,
859
00:58:33.680 --> 00:58:38.590
eh, the American people study here, take this course and run away.
860
00:58:38.590 --> 00:58:43.190
Take the exam. It's a first lead. But, but after five, six years,
861
00:58:44.230 --> 00:58:48.200
your situation is that you had to psychology all the,
862
00:58:48.200 --> 00:58:51.120
all different course you had done many, some different language.
863
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:57.040
For instance, I study with the Spanish book and
864
00:58:58.050 --> 00:59:01.600
eh, French translation in Spanish.
865
00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:06.980
And every so English books,
866
00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:08.460
if I had known that.
867
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:14.170
It's a different way of thinking, different, uh, interpretation.
868
00:59:14.170 --> 00:59:16.250
Different recently over there.
869
00:59:19.010 --> 00:59:22.650
Read here is more less,
870
00:59:23.540 --> 00:59:26.360
but ABC, you get there, you know.
871
00:59:27.290 --> 00:59:31.570
[Nolan] I get that. Alright. Right. Well we're coming up on an hour here.</v>
872
00:59:31.980 --> 00:59:35.290
So anything else you'd like to share? Um,
873
00:59:35.290 --> 00:59:38.490
I really love the message in here because it's something that I'm trying to
874
00:59:38.490 --> 00:59:43.330
spread with Without Borders is the importance of immigrants as
875
00:59:43.330 --> 00:59:45.090
well. Because I think, uh,
876
00:59:45.090 --> 00:59:49.620
sometimes in our world there's a lot of hatred towards
877
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:52.820
immigration. There's a lot of, um, adversity.
878
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:57.860
And as you've shown yourself and through your story is
879
00:59:57.860 --> 01:00:01.420
sometimes by being an immigrant it builds character.
880
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:06.740
And those same immigrants do a lot to help people in that
881
01:00:06.740 --> 01:00:07.480
country.
882
01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:11.900
And I think we need to welcome immigrants because they can do a lot to help,
883
01:00:12.430 --> 01:00:16.540
um, the economy and of course just to help people from that country.
884
01:00:16.710 --> 01:00:19.660
Because we're not just from one nation, right.
885
01:00:19.660 --> 01:00:21.980
We're all world citizens or we all should.
886
01:00:21.980 --> 01:00:26.100
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Yeah. I think your point is </v>
887
01:00:26.100 --> 01:00:28.970
well taken. You see immigrant,
888
01:00:29.690 --> 01:00:34.080
you have to realize the immigrant that even his own land
889
01:00:35.110 --> 01:00:39.320
with the roots, with the family, the language, the customer,
890
01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:44.190
everything is not in general is not that he
891
01:00:44.190 --> 01:00:47.470
just go to another place to have good time.
892
01:00:48.160 --> 01:00:52.190
He not look away happened in the Mediterranean. Those people,
893
01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:55.280
how many people die, they drown.
894
01:00:57.110 --> 01:01:00.400
It's not guarantee you are going to go to Europe and you're going to succeed.
895
01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:04.880
The same thing here and the border with Mexico. You know,
896
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:08.120
they have to go to this and that, you know.
897
01:01:09.540 --> 01:01:12.160
So, but what happened?
898
01:01:12.270 --> 01:01:16.660
They had the desire to succeed, inspire that to,
899
01:01:17.070 --> 01:01:21.740
to give a better future for the, for the kids, for their life,
900
01:01:21.740 --> 01:01:26.090
for the family. So they,
901
01:01:26.660 --> 01:01:28.410
in my opinion, the immigrant should be,
902
01:01:29.980 --> 01:01:33.090
you had to see the short time,
903
01:01:34.300 --> 01:01:38.850
maybe the short time this immigrant is going to take
904
01:01:39.290 --> 01:01:42.460
resources from the taxpayer
905
01:01:43.950 --> 01:01:45.700
because he doesn't have anything.
906
01:01:46.110 --> 01:01:48.660
So somebody had to pray for to somebody and go,
907
01:01:48.660 --> 01:01:50.900
the government had to provide for the house. He,
908
01:01:51.600 --> 01:01:54.080
but eventually
909
01:01:55.790 --> 01:01:57.900
as the time passed by, he got the job
910
01:01:59.810 --> 01:02:03.530
and he had make money. Maybe he's going to buy an old house.
911
01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:07.500
I have patience manage painting.
912
01:02:08.200 --> 01:02:09.780
And we used to talk about it.
913
01:02:09.780 --> 01:02:14.340
I used to talk about it beside that as a human being. I felt being an immigrant,
914
01:02:14.490 --> 01:02:19.030
I, I went out my way to establish a relationship with
915
01:02:19.240 --> 01:02:23.580
these families. And if some of them will say, you know what,
916
01:02:23.910 --> 01:02:27.380
we, we are planning, there is this house, two story,
917
01:02:27.380 --> 01:02:31.340
house is known in the best condition, but we are hunting downstairs.
918
01:02:32.270 --> 01:02:36.910
We are going to plan to buy and we are going to fix this.
919
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:41.380
And uh, rent up upstair, fix the basement.
920
01:02:42.390 --> 01:02:45.010
You know? And, and that's the way you start.
921
01:02:45.610 --> 01:02:48.500
Well you built in the old country,
922
01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:51.100
used to say you built a house one brick at a time.
923
01:02:52.270 --> 01:02:56.800
Nothing happened overnight. It’s,
924
01:02:57.090 --> 01:03:00.070
So eventually there, those kids,
925
01:03:02.430 --> 01:03:04.990
young kids came in from the other side of the,
926
01:03:05.560 --> 01:03:07.740
the other country or they're born here,
927
01:03:07.870 --> 01:03:12.380
they're going to go to school and they're going to have different
928
01:03:12.380 --> 01:03:15.860
ideas. They're going to see their parents and they want to be better.
929
01:03:16.040 --> 01:03:19.100
And they start business, like you were saying before,
930
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:23.940
how many people they have a multi billionaire started the,
931
01:03:23.940 --> 01:03:27.260
the kids finish work in the garage.
932
01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:31.060
You can do something like that.
933
01:03:32.270 --> 01:03:34.300
[Nolan] Exactly. Sal,</v>
934
01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:38.420
thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your messages with us.
935
01:03:38.420 --> 01:03:42.580
I think this is very important in this time. And again, listeners,
936
01:03:42.580 --> 01:03:45.500
the book comes out on March 14th.
937
01:03:45.500 --> 01:03:49.780
There will be a link in the description. You can pre-order it. Yes.
938
01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.500
And of course anyone else listening, uh,
939
01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:55.060
right now who wants to share their immigration story,
940
01:03:55.090 --> 01:03:59.660
I think it's very important because we have to break some of the misconceptions
941
01:03:59.660 --> 01:04:03.930
that people have about immigrants because it's, um, and,
942
01:04:03.930 --> 01:04:05.610
and the times that we're living in,
943
01:04:05.610 --> 01:04:10.610
it's important to understand how important it is to accept immigrants and
944
01:04:10.610 --> 01:04:14.890
of course the, the beautiful stories that come out of it. So Sal,
945
01:04:14.890 --> 01:04:17.650
thanks again for coming on the show and I'm,
946
01:04:17.650 --> 01:04:19.250
I'm looking forward to reading your work.
947
01:04:21.030 --> 01:04:25.950
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] May uh, I want to encourage people to follow me in </v>
948
01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:31.700
Inmstagram. Dr.ForicnaMD, and the book is American,
949
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:33.260
the American ler.
950
01:04:33.680 --> 01:04:37.580
And it can be pre-ordered in Amazon and like you say,
951
01:04:37.650 --> 01:04:41.060
it's coming printed for coming out.
952
01:04:41.830 --> 01:04:46.420
[Nolan] Perfect. All right. I'll put a link of the Instagram account as well then.</v>
953
01:04:46.590 --> 01:04:47.380
Alright.
954
01:04:47.380 --> 01:04:52.220
This was With Without Borders Stories by the Inescapably Foreign. Tune in next
955
01:04:52.220 --> 01:04:52.900
time.
956
01:04:52.900 --> 01:04:54.100
[Dr. Salvador Forcina] Thank you very much.</v>